24-09-2003 20:39									#31
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You mean call the flag?

The term is from literal chess clocks, which have a little flag in the face so that when the minute hand reaches 12, the flag drops. You set the time on the clock (non-digital, but digital chess clocks are sacrilegious) so that at the end of the time limit, the clock is at 12 noon.

Under USCF and FIDE rules, the game doesn't end on time unless the winning player calls it.



You can change the clock settings, but if you give a computer unlimited time, it'll pretty much take it. Calling the flag is an option for the human player, if the computer exceeds it's time allotment, it will continue to play. You can too, so you can play the position out, or you can call the flag and win. The GNUChess engine automatically calls the flag on the human player.

I use a setting of 20 minutes for games on Winboard against the chess engines - not too long, but not so quick you're constantly playing the clock, not the opponent.

	24-09-2003 20:49									#32
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What ELO do the programs you play against play at? If you can beat them in 20 minute games it can't be high, unless you are a closet GM or something.

	24-09-2003 20:55									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike closet GM

One of the lesser known sexual deviations

Asmodean

	24-09-2003 21:01									#34
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I saw an old FAQ on GNUChess 5.02 (current is 5.04, IIRC) that showed it had an ELO of 2150 in 5 minute games.

My highest USCF rating was 2184, from late 1981, then it dropped a bit by early 1982 when I got some open tournament results in. 1982 was when I quit playing chess. Since that time, I played about 20-odd games in 20 years until this set of games here. Most of those were speed games on yahoo or msn last year, then three online games back when ACOL was alive in 1999. Prior to that, I'd played about 4-5 games from 1982 to 1999.

	24-09-2003 22:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I saw an old FAQ on GNUChess 5.02 (current is 5.04, IIRC) that showed it had an ELO of 2150 in 5 minute games. My highest USCF rating was 2184, from late 1981, then it dropped a bit by early 1982 when I got some open tournament results in. 1982 was when I quit playing chess. Since that time, I played about 20-odd games in 20 years until this set of games here. Most of those were speed games on yahoo or msn last year, then three online games back when ACOL was alive in 1999. Prior to that, I'd played about 4-5 games from 1982 to 1999.

That' pretty high, MtG. What ELO do the lowest ranked GM's have?

Asmodean

	24-09-2003 22:14									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The term is from literal chess clocks, which have a little flag in the face so that when the minute hand reaches 12, the flag drops. You set the time on the clock (non-digital, but digital chess clocks are sacrilegious) so that at the end of the time limit, the clock is at 12 noon.

Actually it's common to set the clocks, so that at the end of the time limit is at 6 o'clock. That's convenient, because you can't confuse the watch hands on quick looks, when you're short of time. When you see photos of grandmaster tournaments, the time is at 3:30 at the beginning of the games, because the time limit is 2.5 hours for the first 40 turns.

	24-09-2003 22:22									#37
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Are you a grandmaster, Sir Ralph?

	24-09-2003 22:46									#38
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So how can I go to negative time? I think it was set for five minutes. Does that mean if I use the entire five minutes to play and go negative that I can lose if the other player calls my flag at any time after that?

	24-09-2003 23:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Actually it's common to set the clocks, so that at the end of the time limit is at 6 o'clock. That's convenient, because you can't confuse the watch hands on quick looks, when you're short of time. When you see photos of grandmaster tournaments, the time is at 3:30 at the beginning of the games, because the time limit is 2.5 hours for the first 40 turns.

It makes more sense, but more common in the US is (or was) to set to end at 12. Nobody worried about confusion, because the hour hand can't drop the flag.

	24-09-2003 23:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon So how can I go to negative time? I think it was set for five minutes. Does that mean if I use the entire five minutes to play and go negative that I can lose if the other player calls my flag at any time after that?

Yes, you lose if the player calls it, you don't if he doesn't.

	24-09-2003 23:50									#41
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quote: Yes, you lose if the player calls it, you don't if he doesn't.

Looks like I need to extend my time or play quicker.

	24-09-2003 23:56									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean That' pretty high, MtG. What ELO do the lowest ranked GM's have? Asmodean

The lowest ranked active GM's are in the upper 2400's, though 2600 is probably closer to average.

There's a big difference though, in that there's a very consistent, strong pool in the IM and GM ranks, so ELO ratings there are relatively accurate to player strength. At lower ranks, there is a rubberbanding effect due to the ability to get paired in tournaments against weaker or stronger players.

I got my highest rating by thrashing "A" players (USCF ELO ratings of 1800-1999) in a series of tournaments in quick succession, but then when my Candidate Master (USCF Expert, ELO 2000-2199) rating came out, I was forced to play in the open section of tournaments, where the average rating pool was in the low 2300's (a mix of Masters and local IM's or GM's wanting to harvest some money off the peasants.

My next published rating was nearly 60 points off my peak, simply because of the different rating pool I was playing against, and it would have been closer to 90 points off if I hadn't gotten some rating shock insulation via draws against John Grefe and Yasser Seirawan.

I'm giving some thought of getting back into tournament play, but I wouldn't do it before next summer at the earliest. I have a bunch of studying and preparation to do before that.

	24-09-2003 23:58									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon Looks like I need to extend my time or play quicker.

I don't recommend speed chess for beginner or intermediate players. What you really need to go for are the best quality of games you can, and then post-mortem those to learn from the mistakes and opportunities on both sides.

	25-09-2003 02:22									#44
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I'm giving some thought of getting back into tournament play, but I wouldn't do it before next summer at the earliest. I have a bunch of studying and preparation to do before that.

That's a whole lot of studying you have to do, if you want to get back to that level. Chess at that level is about two things. 1-The ability to think ahead. The further the better. The ability to visualize the board is also important here. And 2-The amount of time you put into it. The more the merrier. Most GM's spend all their off tournament time studying previous games ,and thinking out new moves.

Asmodean

	25-09-2003 02:32									#45
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Drawing with Seirawan is a nice result.

	25-09-2003 02:58									#46
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quote: Originally posted by ljcvetko Are you a grandmaster, Sir Ralph?

No.

	25-09-2003 03:01									#47
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Inter Master?
Master?
Master candidate?

	25-09-2003 03:04									#48
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Neither of it, and never was. I played some chess in the 70s and 80s. Quit 1986. I didn't play a single game since then.

	25-09-2003 03:08									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean That's a whole lot of studying you have to do, if you want to get back to that level. Chess at that level is about two things. 1-The ability to think ahead. The further the better. The ability to visualize the board is also important here. And 2-The amount of time you put into it. The more the merrier. Most GM's spend all their off tournament time studying previous games ,and thinking out new moves. Asmodean

With time limits from kids and work and life in general, (I played competitively from age 13 to 21 so I had a lot more time and needed the money from tournaments ), there's no way I'll get to that level. If I can play competitively as an A player, that'll be good enough.

	25-09-2003 03:08									#50
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Sir ralph, you seem to be the best around here.
Pure talent?

	25-09-2003 03:14									#51
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If I had talent, I wouldn't have quit playing.

Actually I lied. I just looked up some old games, and the latest was 1989.

	25-09-2003 03:14									#52
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Drawing with Seirawan is a nice result.

He was a bit irritated. Normally, in those weekend swiss tournaments, the GM's would cream everyone for no sweat wins until the last round, then play each other for easy draws and split the prize money. Easy weekend earnings for them, and not much for anyone else, especially if you had four guys in the Senior Master to GM bunch - everyone else just got to donate entry fees.

I got my draw in the second round, after beating a Master in the first round (then I got creamed the rest of the weekend ), but that put Yasser 1/2 point shy of the winning group.

	25-09-2003 03:16									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph If I had talent, I wouldn't have quit playing.

yep, that's the way it works. If we had any talent, we'd have been Senior Masters while in our teens.

	25-09-2003 03:20									#54
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat yep, that's the way it works. If we had any talent, we'd have been Senior Masters while in our teens.

After playing seven years competitively and achieving nothing, I must agree.

	25-09-2003 03:32									#55
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Well at least I won a show-case full of crystal and porcelain vases. Nothing special, but nice enough to keep at least my wife happy with my frequent absence.