13-09-2003 18:22									#1
	Why do I s*ck at chess? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Aside from my weekly Civ and Smac, I've started to play some Chess at Yahoo. And I've come to realize that, well, I suck...badly.

I'm getting smacked down by the lowest ranking members in the beginner rooms. And when I'm not getting creamed, they're telling me to hurry up because I take too long to think about and make moves.

I love the game, and my openings are decent. But after about the fourth or fifth turn, it's like a fog descends over the board and I carelessly lose important pieces.

- Can anyone offer simple, easy to follow advice to succeed after the opening?

-Can anyone point me to good websites or books that offer such easy-to-follow advice?

- Is there any sites where I can practice against a computer opponent and take my time?

Thanks in advance,
Jac.

	13-09-2003 18:57									#2
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This isn't what you want to hear, probably, but the best thing to do is play with a better, patient player. Play casually, where you cheerfully discuss the best moves for both sides, and allow take backs after you hang your queen or something. Listen to why the good player says that your suggested moves for him are faulty, or the obvious threat of his that you're missing when thinking out loud for your position.

That, and good chess books. Unfortunately, the best one I read was printed in 1953 or thereabouts and would be practically impossible to find.

As a disclaimer, despite all that, I'm still not that wonderful. In general, I won't make moves that hang a piece within 2 moves, and I comprehend enough basic strategy and positional ideas that barring no good moves on the other person's side (or blunders on my own), I can generally take games to a King & Pawn ending by forcing enough trades (and hope that I've developed my pawns better than my opponent).

	13-09-2003 21:15									#3
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Try "Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess". You can get it at the underdogs.

http://www.the-underdogs.org/

	13-09-2003 22:37									#4
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Show me one of you games.

	14-09-2003 00:43									#5
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Chess is very difficult and complicated game.It takes years of study and practice to acheive anything resembling mastery.You need countless hours of opening,middle and endgame study and play.And even then it is a struggle.There are no shortcuts really.

Having said that,the Reassess Your Chess book series by Jeremy Silman is an excellent chess learning system.

I would also advise just about anybody to take more time.Use your clock to the max.As a youngster,I was taught to sit on my hands to keep from moving too quickly.

	14-09-2003 07:18									#6
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You are channeling me whenever you play chess. Find a way to shut off the psychic connection.

	14-09-2003 07:39									#7
	Re: Why do I s*ck at chess? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay - Can anyone offer simple, easy to follow advice to succeed after the opening?

You need to look deeper. Come up with combinations that net you either material, tempo, or position. Preferably all 3. I am not sure how easy that is, though.

Actually, IMO, you don't need to memorise any openings until later. Just concentrate on the mid-game first.

quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay - Is there any sites where I can practice against a computer opponent and take my time?

Best play against a chess program. Chessmaster is very good.

If there is a local chess club, join. You can usually find people to teach you a trick or two.

	14-09-2003 11:38									#8
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Control the middle and try to make sure your pieces are defended heavily before you move. Try not to lose your patience when you play. If your going to lose a piece, try to sacrifice it to obtain an opponent's piece. Remember, losing is just a strategy to make future wins look more brilliant.

	14-09-2003 11:51									#9
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you can't suck as bad as me.

I always have trouble looking more than a few turns ahead. I can't figure out how to do it.

I think I only do well at Civ and SMAC is because of my intimate knowledge of the rules.

	14-09-2003 13:35									#10
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Well, usually you don't need to look ahead more than 8-10 turns. Your opponent usually doesn't move as you envision him to

	14-09-2003 16:06									#11
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The best route for a beginner is a good book, which will make you aware of the basics. I also would pop for Silman's books, which are the best entry level guides IMO.

	15-09-2003 03:09									#12
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It takes lots of study and practice to become great. Even if you are a prodigy, you will still need to do a good deal of work to play aside the best.

That's why I gave it up. Just too time consuming.

	15-09-2003 08:34									#13
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I learned from Play Winning Chess, Winning Chess Tactics, and Winning Chess Strategies, by Yasser Seirawin. At least I think that's what his name was. Anyway, I learned pretty quickly. And I was seven when I read those.

	15-09-2003 08:41									#14
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Showoff...

	15-09-2003 18:45									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior I learned from Play Winning Chess, Winning Chess Tactics, and Winning Chess Strategies, by Yasser Seirawin. At least I think that's what his name was.

I think it's Yasser Seirawan.

	15-09-2003 22:22									#16
	Re: Re: Why do I s*ck at chess? Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You need to look deeper. Come up with combinations that net you either material, tempo, or position. Preferably all 3. I am not sure how easy that is, though.

Well, I 'm improving a little bit now. I picked up a chess for idiots book, and understanding material advantage has helped my game a little bit. I've won some games on Yahoo beginners now. But, I'm like Dissident, and it's hard to "see" more than two turns ahead.

quote: Best play against a chess program. Chessmaster is very good.

Actually, just picked up a Chess program (Chessmate 2000?) from the bargain bin, and I'm very glad I did because I can play turns as long as I want. Played games all night saturday, and was able to beat 1100 and 1200 players.

A great game, but, damn, very very tough.

	15-09-2003 23:22									#17
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Sometimes seeing ahead is a disadvantage. I assume people play like me but unfortunately not too many people are as wreckless and grandiose as I am. I'll anticipate this string of activity and suddenly on the very next turn I get checkmated.

	16-09-2003 12:15									#18
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I got those Yasser books too. Good beginner books.

	16-09-2003 12:40									#19
	Re: Re: Re: Why do I s*ck at chess? Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Well, I 'm improving a little bit now. I picked up a chess for idiots book, and understanding material advantage has helped my game a little bit. I've won some games on Yahoo beginners now. But, I'm like Dissident, and it's hard to "see" more than two turns ahead. Actually, just picked up a Chess program (Chessmate 2000?) from the bargain bin, and I'm very glad I did because I can play turns as long as I want. Played games all night saturday, and was able to beat 1100 and 1200 players. A great game, but, damn, very very tough.

Why would anyone pay a cent for a chess program, if there's Winboard (or Xboard, for that matter) with some terrific chess engines (GnuChess 5, Crafty 19) available for free? I bet alone Crafty is better than every game from the bargain bin and at least on even with $50 commercial games.

	16-09-2003 14:20									#20
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Crafty19 is strong enough for the vast majority of players. But it just plays; some of the commercial software has many other features.

	16-09-2003 16:53									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Why would anyone pay a cent for a chess program, if there's Winboard (or Xboard, for that matter) with some terrific chess engines (GnuChess 5, Crafty 19) available for free? I bet alone Crafty is better than every game from the bargain bin and at least on even with $50 commercial games.

I pay for chess program, because there´s no Winboard with my computer (or I´m just stupid and think it comes with Windows.

Jac, if you just can, play, play, play and play. You have to lose about 100 times before you can even dream about winning.

Atleast I have to

	16-09-2003 19:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon Sometimes seeing ahead is a disadvantage. I assume people play like me but unfortunately not too many people are as wreckless and grandiose as I am. I'll anticipate this string of activity and suddenly on the very next turn I get checkmated.

That's not what is meant by looking ahead. Yes, you try to anticipate your opponent's moves (and if you know them well enough, you can try a strategy based on that), but you need to look at all their available moves. One good technique is to look at it from their perspective. Try to see how they could penetrate your defenses, and see where their defenses are weakest.

Anyway, the best way to learn is to play as much as you can. I was so young when I started that I barely remember those days. However, I had a friend who wanted to learn to play. I was well above him at this time, but I offered to play him over and over again. He lost nearly every game, but he got better each time.

As you play you'll learn the nuasances of the game. You'll be able to push your opponent back with even taking any pieces, In fact, if you get good, you needn't worry what your opponent is doing, because you'll be controlling them.

	18-09-2003 05:55									#23
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Heya, Jac, and Dissident (and anyone else that sucks at chess ),

I was reading this here thread, and following some of the chess games around here, and found out that I suck at chess as well. So, I was thinking: maybe us n00bs should play each other? Then some of the more experienced folks could kind of dissect our games, and point out positive and negative parts, and decisions (MtG has nicely volunteered for that part already ). So, what do you all think 'bout that? I think it would be beneficial for us to learn that way...

	18-09-2003 10:47									#24
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Why do I s*ck at chess? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Why would anyone pay a cent for a chess program, if there's Winboard (or Xboard, for that matter) with some terrific chess engines (GnuChess 5, Crafty 19) available for free? I bet alone Crafty is better than every game from the bargain bin and at least on even with $50 commercial games.

Winboard is great, but for beginners, being able to repeat games, do opening study, or put different time constraints on the human and the computer would help a lot.

	18-09-2003 12:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Crafty19 is strong enough for the vast majority of players. But it just plays; some of the commercial software has many other features.

Exactly. IIRC, Chessmaster has some good features to help you learn the game.

	18-09-2003 12:02									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Pave Jac, if you just can, play, play, play and play. You have to lose about 100 times before you can even dream about winning.

Yeah. Lost a few times to the Fool's Mate before I realised I better put that knight up.

	18-09-2003 15:14									#27
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Just finished reading "All the King's Horses" today. Definite chills.

	18-09-2003 15:31									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Yeah. Lost a few times to the Fool's Mate before I realised I better put that knight up.

The shortest game I ever won was a 3-turner at a simultaneous seance I gave at a local summer festival in a little town in northern Germany. One of my challengers was a drunkard, who already had downed quite some beers. He sat down and said "Hey, but wizzout dirty tricks, okeee?"

I had granted everyone the right to choose the color, and he begun:

1. f4

Oh, the Bird opening, I thought. Seems to be a good player. But screw it, I counter with From's gambit

1. ... e5

He thought a while, and played

2. g3??

No, definitely not a good player, I thought. I quickly captured the pawn

2. ... exf4

He looked at the board for a moment and then recaptured it

3. gxf4??

and here the game ended

3. ... Qh4 checkmate.

He looked at me and shouted "Goddamn! Hey... chessman... I said wizzzzzzout dirty tricks... no dirty tricks I said."

	24-09-2003 12:34									#29
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Yeeeee-ha!

Speaking of Winboard and GNUChess, I just kicked it's ass twice in a row as white in closed Sicilians.

Won on time the first time, a pawn up and threatening mate or additional material at move 40, and won in a long endgame (70+ moves) that reverted to a pawn ending with me two pawns up.

	24-09-2003 18:59									#30
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I was playing WinBoard and trying to walk though some formations against the engine but it seems to anticipate this and kills me. I had a wonderfully humiliating game this weekend where it demolished me with its queen early into the game. The clock was making me nervous; is there some way to turn this off? What does capture the flag mean?