14-09-2003 10:06									#1
	Ripped off by internet retailer? What should I do? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I need advice about how to deal with an internet retailer that may have ripped me off.

I order goalie pads from an Internet retailer. The pads arrived yesterday and there were three problems:
1) I was charged US$100 for shipping, but the shipping bill on the box said it cost US$64 to ship it.
2) The pads did not have a thigh protector, a small peice of padding that is tied onto the pads.
3) The pads have cloth straps with plastic click-in buckles instead of leather straps with metal buckles.

I called the company and they said
a) they'll look into the shipping costs
b) Thigh protectors are optional
c) leather straps are optional

The company's website did not list a full description of the pads and the web page for the pads is no longer on the site. They were a discontinued model so maybe the pads are sold out. Other websites list the pads as having thigh protectors and photos show the pads appear to have leather straps.

I did get a good price on the pads: US$299 compared to other websites that sell them for $550 - $600. Buying the thigh protectors and leather straps will cost about $175.

So what should I do? How does a consumer fight back against internet retailers?

	14-09-2003 10:08									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If they took down the page, see if you can get a Google cache of it. Dunno what it will do other than enhance or deny your suspicions, though.

	14-09-2003 10:09									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Do they have a brick-and-mortar outlet?

	14-09-2003 10:11									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

If they never specifically said what they sold, you're probably screwed. Unless (and I don't know about goalie pads) ALL pads come with a thigh protector (like all cars come with a seat) etc. then I don't know how you can recoup any of your money.

	14-09-2003 10:17									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Buyer beware. If the price is too good, maybe you are not getting the thigh protectors and leather straps that the others are including for $250 more.

	14-09-2003 10:37									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Caveat Emptor - Let the buyer beware.

If it's too good to be true, it probably is

	14-09-2003 10:39									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Do they have a brick-and-mortar outlet?

Yes, but they're in the States.

	14-09-2003 10:43									#8
	Increase the size of your Attachments

When I was ordering them, I was worried about the whole: if it is too good to be true then it isn't.

But, these are a discontinued model so I figured that they were selling off old stock at cost. They only had one size and in one colour.

	14-09-2003 11:00									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, would it be too hard to pay for the thigh protectors and leather straps? It seems you still would have got a bargain.

	14-09-2003 11:25									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yeah, but that ain't the point, nye.

Tingkai, you'd need some confirmation you were getting the other stuff. Sucks, I know, but without that there is no proof . But if they **** you on this, get on the phone and yell at them. You know what they say about the squeaky wheel .

	14-09-2003 11:47									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

While were at this, what's the name of this retailer so the rest of us can avoid it?

	14-09-2003 12:36									#12
	Suffering from ads?

But that is the point, Imran. Too good to be true. If the price was sooo low, something had to be missing, unless he had some assurance that those things were not missing.

If they represented the pads as including the options, but shipped him the wrong stuff, then he has a reason to howl. What he has now is $300 worth of goalie pads that can be brought up to his standards for $175, which is still less than the $550 that the other companies offered them for.

caveat emptor.

	14-09-2003 12:44									#13
	Remove this text

quote: caveat emptor

Unless the company promised something else than our friend Tingkai found desirable . The point is NOT that he got a bargain on his pads, the point is that he thought he'd also recieve other goods for his purchase and he did not recieve that.

If he believed he was buying something else than he got (and pads usually come with those things that are 'optional'), then 'caveat emptor' doesn't apply, and this is pure fraud.

	14-09-2003 12:46									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Boo hoo. Yes it does. If they are 'options', and the retailer did not expiciltly offer them, then they are not at fault.

Kind of like not enquiring what options that steal of a deal car has when the local dealer offers it for a great price.

	14-09-2003 12:52									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: If they are 'options', and the retailer did not expiciltly offer them, then they are not at fault.

But Tingkai is saying that they did offer them and then changed it in the end. The website isn't there, but it seems that the pictures showed both the thigh protectors and the leather straps. If the picture showed one thing and he got another, that's fraudulent.

Furthermore, I'm less inclined to trust the company seeing as they really overcharged him for shipping.

	14-09-2003 12:52									#16
	Tired of ads?

Then it boils down to whether the pads are actually optional or not.

	14-09-2003 12:55									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Then it boils down to whether the pads are actually optional or not.

Well if the straps and protectors are optional. From other sites, it really doesn't seem like it.

To use the car analogy, it'd be like buying a 2003 Toyota Camry for a great and finding out it has no radio or A/C. These things are standard, so someone selling a 'Camry' without those things is being fradulent if they don't tell you that it doesn't include them.

	14-09-2003 12:58									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If they are 'options', and the retailer did not expiciltly offer them, then they are not at fault. But Tingkai is saying that they did offer them and then changed it in the end. The website isn't there, but it seems that the pictures showed both the thigh protectors and the leather straps. If the picture showed one thing and he got another, that's fraudulent. Furthermore, I'm less inclined to trust the company seeing as they really overcharged him for shipping.

That may be a point. If they pictured one thing and shipped him another, that is a case. But what did they picture, and did he save it?

As for shipping, was it shipping only or shipping and handeling that he was charged for? The actual shipping charge is not the entire story if packing and other things are considered.

	14-09-2003 12:59									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The fact that they arrived with cloth straps would indicate that leather is optional.

	14-09-2003 13:01									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Yes, but they're in the States.

If they do, they have more to protect than just a website. So it would be easier if you complain about things.

Now, assume that they weren't intensionally ripping you off. Are these options usually included? That is, are these pads usually sold with the protectors and leather straps together?

	14-09-2003 13:01									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: That may be a point. If they pictured one thing and shipped him another, that is a case. But what did they picture, and did he save it?

He didn't save it, so he may not be able to do anything about it (something to REMEMBER for later, Tingkai). It seems that they showed the pads with all the 'options', but didn't inform him that they were options when he went to buy them. Also, if they were options, shouldn't have they been listed for him to buy?

quote: As for shipping, was it shipping only or shipping and handeling that he was charged for? The actual shipping charge is not the entire story if packing and other things are considered.

Well I've never seen a handling charge for $36 .

	14-09-2003 13:02									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You haven't spent enogh time on eBay.

	14-09-2003 13:03									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: The fact that they arrived with cloth straps would indicate that leather is optional.

Not entirely... they could have pulled the leather out, and just placed cloth ones in, so they could sell the leather straps seperately (because they could get more money doing it that way).

	14-09-2003 13:04									#24
	Got spare money?

Perhaps the manufacturer can settle that question?

	14-09-2003 13:06									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Perhaps the manufacturer can settle that question?

Hopefully. From Tingkai's post it seems that every other picture he's seen of the pads on the web includes these 'options'. So it looks sort of fishy.

	14-09-2003 13:06									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk You haven't spent enogh time on eBay.

I say it would be reasonable to have $30 handling charges for items worth several thousand dollars, including such things as insurances or even escrow services.

	14-09-2003 13:07									#27
	Increase Your PM Length

But not on a $300 item, right, UR?

	14-09-2003 13:09									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I've seen some hefty charges where the shipping and insurance were listed separately -- it's another way to bump up the cost to the unaware.

	14-09-2003 17:13									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I never buy from the creeps who deflate their online price but then inflate the shipping and 'handling' charges. If they're that manipulative to start with, its a risk doing business with them IMO.

If you paid by credit card you may be able to get the banks online fraud department involved (some of the bigger cards have such services) though I'm not sure what help they'll be without proof that you didnt receive what you thought you purchased.

	14-09-2003 18:55									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Yes, but they're in the States.

Tell us where, and we'll beat your money out of their skinny hides.

If there's one thing I hate, it's cheating e-retailers.




But make very sure first, I don't want to go to F PMITA Prison for a confused Canuk