15-09-2003 00:14									#1
	Police Unit Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ok since police units can have the same anti-drones effect of rec commons plus they can defend the base too, supposely you don't need to build rec commons if you've got the police units right? Now my questions is that do people simply build them after they have the tech or they normally upgrade the scout? Somehow when I tried to upgrade, the cost is higher then build a new one. Is that true or did I do something wrong?

	15-09-2003 00:42									#2
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HongHu,
It depends heavily on your faction of choice. If there is no police in your SE choices, build RecCommons. I rarely build them, because I try to get as many early SP's as possible, and among them, HGP and VW rank very high (after WP). And usually I try to have many specialists when the base is size 5+. Except playing Yang, I usually completely neglect police also. With Yang, I try to get as much as possible, and a +3 police rating (Ascetic Virtues) so that I can appease 12 drones with 3 police units.

	15-09-2003 01:12									#3
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Even at +3 Police, you can only appease 9 drones with 3 police units.

	15-09-2003 02:50									#4
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I didn't test it, so it's maybe my fault. Documentations says that +3 Police and Nonlethal Methods both double the police effect. I wouldn't be too surprised that this is wrong and they just add 1. I suppose you checked for those strange double-drone effects.

	15-09-2003 03:55									#5
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They both double base police rating. So the bonuses are added, not multiplied. 9 drones isn't bad though.

	15-09-2003 14:41									#6
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HongHu, basic Infantry Police 1-1-1 *1 cost 1 row, or 10 mins (plus or minus depending on Industry status) same as a minimal scout unit, and it also costs the minimum, 10 to upgrade a scout to a cop. I call mine "Neighborhood Cops", BTW, (and they are the Best D@mned Cops on planet). If you are getting different costs, perhaps you are using a higher reactor or adding other bells or whistles (they already come with a basic whistle anyway ).

I use cops a lot, particularly with Yang, but also with other factions, unless I've gotten committed to FM, in which case I don't bother, but since they cost the same as a scout, once you get the tech, why not, if you are going to build a scout anyway. You may still want to use a Rec Comm, but generally a Holo (which would cost 3ec/turn - the same cost as those 3 cops mentioned earlier) is unnecessary.

Cops are good to build in newly captured bases as they can usually be rushed right away at a reasonable enough cost, considering that you may be able liberate 2 drones right then.

Minimal Clean Cops cost 2 rows (or 20 mins + or -) to build or exactly 20 to upgrade to from a scout and are usually worth the extra over the dirty ones, unless you have a really high support level, although they are noticably more expensive to rush in a newly captured base.

Last edited by johndmuller on 15-09-2003 at 14:49

	15-09-2003 15:36									#7
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I usually combine the police units with trance. So, even if the defense value is 1, they can help in defense against mindworms. I don't upgrade scouts since I want my police units to have a higher morale.

	15-09-2003 16:50									#8
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Gaians can make excellent use of the cop scouts since they can't use FM. Since it is 'free' ability for a 1-1-1p, then it is a decision to go for trance, morale upgrade (also free), or police. Even with armor this can be 'free' with a new build, or a minimal cost upgrade. I use this a lot during a mid game pop boom before all anti-drone infrastructure is in place. An extra 1-1-1p that gets me one more tile worked is a bargain even if it does cost a minreral to support. Old 1-1-1 can be upgraded during a pop boom, too for minimal cost.

Hydro

	16-09-2003 02:07									#9
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God, I'd be absolutely stuffed without those 1-1-1(police) units. Can't live without them.

-Jam

	16-09-2003 19:12									#10
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See being the Hive the cost of building a police unit is 7 if you have the right SE, but it costs you 10 to upgrade. I almost want to say that it is worth it just to disband your scout and build a new police unit. But that will be a waste of time though when your base could be building something else.

Having to upgrade one by one is so tedious if you don't have enough money to upgrade them all in the workshop.

	16-09-2003 23:40									#11
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Well then just upgrade them at large rioting bases, if your Yang then all the regular scouts will be able to handle size 1/2 bases.

	17-09-2003 00:51									#12
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That assumes that 10 ec and 7 minerals are worth the same thing.

I've never tried to logically tie in minerals to energy credits as a value relationship.

	17-09-2003 01:17									#13
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I use as a rule of thumb that one mineral equals two energy, since a large part of my accumulated energy goes towards hurrying facilities.

	17-09-2003 05:22									#14
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Brood Pits! Brood Pits! ;=)

	26-09-2003 01:59									#15
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yeah Ablbertadus is right it depends on how your faction plays no rec commons make police

rec commons less police

	26-09-2003 07:37									#16
	Re: Police Unit Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Ok since police units can have the same anti-drones effect of rec commons plus they can defend the base too, supposely you don't need to build rec commons if you've got the police units right? Now my questions is that do people simply build them after they have the tech or they normally upgrade the scout? Somehow when I tried to upgrade, the cost is higher then build a new one. Is that true or did I do something wrong?

I usually use both Clean Police Units and Rec Commons. I usually run my SE at 0% for Psych unless I need some help to manage my Drones. I will often allot some energy to Psych for a few turns after I build the Cloning Vats.

One thing I note about Police Units, particularly Clean Reactor ones, is that they require no further resources to do their job. Rec Commons require 1 energy per turn for maintenance. A Clean Police Unit requires nothing after it is built and parked in a city.


Mead

	26-09-2003 10:51									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A clean cop costs 20 minerals before industry, the equivalent of 40 energy.

A rec commons costs 40 minerals (80 energy) plus 1 energy per turn. It does at least as good a job as a cop aside from the cost, unless you also have a +3 police rating.

Free Market (for non-Yang, Cha, Dee, and to some extent Morgan) will give more than 1 extra energy per turn at each base, after inefficiency.

The extra cost of a rec commons (40 energy up front) is offset pretty quickly by the extra energy.

For Yang, I wholeheartedly agree that clean cops rock.

	26-09-2003 14:41									#18
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Chaos,

RC - 2 drones quelled.
Cleancop - 2 drones quelled.

So no, an RC doesn't do at least as good a job as a cop - it does exactly as good a job as a cop, twice as good as a pre-II cop however. It's available earlier than cleancops, but before the switch to Demo, a large percentage of cops will be "clean" anyway. And they cost 10 minerals, thus a mere fourth of an RC, and they can protect bases and CP's from worms, and they can be upgraded to real defenders if invaded, and they can head out pod-popping in their spare time, and and and.

Having tried both FM starts and Planned starts extensively, I'd say -- both have very strong strong points (cops being Planned's strongest point, and the huge energy boost indeed FM's strongest point), and it's definitely not a cut-and-dried thing.

USC

	26-09-2003 22:33									#19
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A rec commons does a better job than a cop when you already have as many police as you are allowed (which is 0 units under FM).

Early "cops" (1-1-1 units) only do half as good a job as rec commons, and they will often not be effectively clean, since highly-desirable formers are chewing up the free support slots in each base.

If you send your cops out to kill things or pop pods, then they stop quelling drones in their original bases, and so must be replaced. If, instead, you use rec commons, you can't move them from base to base, but you can rush-buy a rec commons in your new base for ~60 energy if you aren't yet running demo, or for ~90 energy over two turns if you are.

The upgradability of cops is useful, but again, you'll need to replace them soon if they stop being cops or leave to fight a war. If your empire has an interior, then you have no need of immediate defense in there against other players. You should either have sensors or formers in the area - sensors prevent random worms and formers make adequate defenders in a pinch.

Aside from Yang/Dee/Cha, I use FM early for the tremendous raw energy boost unless I have a compelling reason not to - nearby enemies or a real worm problem. With the extra energy from FM/Wealth, I can buy rec commons where needed without trouble, cancelling the extra energy, but preserving the extra labs. Planned chokes my energy too soon with the -2 efficiency (Dee and Aki excluded), especially on larger maps.

	26-09-2003 23:03									#20
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I love police unit I always use my police units for base defense. You can produce one basic scout police per turn and they can be upgraded in time of need.