16-09-2003 00:44									#61
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Its just not Christians - its everyone. Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Evangelists, Orthodox Catholics - hell even the mormons come around once a week.

There must be something written in those black books that they all carry around.

	16-09-2003 00:47									#62
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Dude, those were all Christians except for the Moslems. I wasn't aware the Muslims proselityzed.

	16-09-2003 00:47									#63
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quote: NAMBLA advocates sex with minors and opposes statutory rape schemes

Distinction without a difference.

How can a minor consent to sex with someone who is not a minor?

quote: if the shoe was on the other foot with respect to some other religion - those zealots would be the first to call the ACLU.

Exactly. I've been on the other foot, and trust me, it's not nice to have the 'liberals' censor speech simply because they disagree with the content.

	16-09-2003 00:51									#64
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thanks Ben

I see the ACLU as political Zealots; much like religious zealots are annoying, so are the political ones.

It is not so much the 10C being up as if the school doesn't want trouble they should fix the problem without the ACLU threatening them. Most schools won't address the religion aspect at all, especially anything deemedas propoganda...

Besides, the ACLU should protect constitutional rights, and the last time I checked there was nothing that mentioned that religions can't attempt to force their religion on you; if that were the case prison would be filled with teenage boys in suits, and the impound would be full of 10-speeds...

	16-09-2003 00:55									#65
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quote: Dude, those were all Christians except for the Moslems. I wasn't aware the Muslims proselityzed.

	16-09-2003 03:02									#66
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar Christianity? Islam? Same nonsense, different names. And actually right wing Muslims are pretty much the same as right wing Christians - oppressing women, bashing gays, opposing reproductive freedom (incl. the use of contraception) and trying to impose their view of virtue on everyone else by hijacking the political process. Sounds pretty conservative to me ...

you are failing to realize that conservatives back Israel. Therefore most muslims hate conservatives.

Muslims are not conservative- period.

	16-09-2003 03:04									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Japher the last time I checked there was nothing that mentioned that religions can't attempt to force their religion on you;

True, but they can't use the government to do it.

	16-09-2003 03:06									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident you are failing to realize that conservatives back Israel. Therefore most muslims hate conservatives. Muslims are not conservative- period.

This is just stupid, Diss. Imran is a conservative. He does not back Israel. Billions of conservatives have differing opinions on Israel. It's not a touchstone issue, except among American UltraChristians.

	16-09-2003 03:08									#69
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quote: Imran is a conservative.

I am?

I'm sure most conservatives wouldn't consider me in their 'club' .

	16-09-2003 03:20									#70
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara This is just stupid, Diss. Imran is a conservative. He does not back Israel. Billions of conservatives have differing opinions on Israel. It's not a touchstone issue, except among American UltraChristians.

why then would ultrachristians back Israel then? You'd think they'd be against Jews.

The reason is most conservatives believe in the use of force. Not giving into extortion and giving away land for peace.

	16-09-2003 03:25									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident why then would ultrachristians back Israel then? You'd think they'd be against Jews.

UltraChristians believe that the Temple of Solomon needs to be rebuilt in order for the 2nd coming of Christ to occur. Thus they back Israel totally.

Conservatives outside the US don't give two shits about Israel, generally.

	16-09-2003 03:28									#72
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quote: The Dems have mostly let Bush's judges sail through and have only stopped with worst offenders.

What was so offensive with Estrada? Simply that Bush really liked him.

	16-09-2003 04:12									#73
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The ACLU just had a ruling in their favor in California delaying the recall vote on the Governor. This works in favor of the Democrats in the state of course. But I am sure this is just a coincidence. If conservatives needed a delay I am sure that the ACLU would be right on it...

	16-09-2003 05:33									#74
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quote: Muslims are not conservative- period.

* Ben Kenobi recalls shariah law.

I'd say they are conservative.

	16-09-2003 07:20									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi * Ben Kenobi recalls shariah law. I'd say they are conservative.

Islam like Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism isn't monolithic- there are different branches of Islam, and different shadings within those branches.

I vividly recall a visiting Pakistani doctor (!) addressing the Islamic Society at my partner's university on the origins of H.I.V. . His conclusions were based on the usual things- Koranic condemnation of homosexuality, an outmoded set of definitions of homosexuality (the usual dominant mother, passive father crapola) and that animals don't get venereal or sexually transmissible diseases. Except of course, they can and do...

Some of his most vocal opponents (other than the usual commie pinko queer rabble like me) were the Muslim medical students at the university who told him to his face that he was setting back the course of science by decades and damaging the image of Islam at the university by claiming Koranic backing for his (un) scientific views. Needless to say, these Muslims were not 'conservative' by any stretch of the imagination.

	16-09-2003 07:51									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Imran is a conservative. I am? I'm sure most conservatives wouldn't consider me in their 'club' .

You are not in my club or Che's club, so you must be conservative.

	16-09-2003 08:30									#77
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He's in my club.

We don't like any of your clubs and we made our own. Screw all y'all.

	16-09-2003 08:43									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident you are failing to realize that conservatives back Israel. Therefore most muslims hate conservatives. Muslims are not conservative- period.

There are fundamentalist Muslims, in general fundamentalists are conservative by definition. Just because Muslims and NeoCons disagree on Israel doesn't mean Muslims aren't conservative. Many older Conservatives are quite anti-semetic. Conservative is a big tent kind of thing.

	16-09-2003 08:49									#79
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I'm a republican, and although the ACLU's actions make me roll my eyes sometimes, they're on the balance a good and necessary organization.

Some of the members of the DC ACLU that I've dealt with (The Capital Punishment Project, specifically) are extremely dedicated, intelligent and informed about what they're defending. I can't indict the whole organization, especially when it's somewhat compartamentalized.

Addendum:

The Israel issue is a big touchstone among the Ultrachristians as well as the radical left and Northeastern Jews. It isn't just the bible thumpers.

	16-09-2003 10:34									#80
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quote: We don't like any of your clubs and we made our own. Screw all y'all.

Booyah!