15-09-2003 17:52									#1
	The Screwtape Letters, or "Let's pester GePap" Got spare money?

As anybody who's ever looked at my sig can tell, I'm a big C.S. Lewis fan, and since there's been all this talk about Nietzsche lately I figure turnabout is fair play. Has anybody here read Screwtape? If so, what did you think of it? I'm especially interested in the opinion of non-Christians who read the book(it's about human thought in general as much as it is about religion, so it's worth a read for anybody).
For those who've never heard of it or want a blurb anyway, the Screwtape Letters is a relatively short work of fiction from the 1940s that takes the form of a set of correspondence from an elderly and experience demon named Screwtape to his nephew Wormwood, advising him on the best ways of tempting a young man to ruin. It's extremely satirical in tone, going into what Lewis sees as flaws in modern thought in great detail, and probably my favorite book. I just want to see what the vast aggregate of OT opinions has to say about it.

	15-09-2003 17:53									#2
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Didn´t read it - what are the "flaws in modern thought"?

	15-09-2003 18:09									#3
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Well, one of my favorite examples is the Historical Point of View cited by Screwtape towards the end:
"The Historical Point of View, put briefly, means that when a learned man is presented with any statement in an ancient author, the one question he never asks is whether it is true. He asks who influenced the ancient writer, and how far the statement is consistent with what he said in other books, and what phase in the writer's development, or in the general history of thought, it illustrates...and what is the 'present state of the question.' To regard the ancient writer as a possible source of knowledge-to anticipate that what he said could possibly modify your thoughts or your behaviour-this would be rejected as unutterably simple-minded...great scholars are now as little nourished by the past as the most ignorant mechanic who holds that 'history is bunk.'"
That passage, which I hopefully haven't broken any copyright laws by quoting, is a pretty good example of the spirit of the whole book.

	15-09-2003 18:27									#4
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So is this screwtape of the old transparent type or the later chromium variety?

[/obscure music joke]

	15-09-2003 18:34									#5
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Considering the quote and considering Nietzsches early career in the field of philology, I guess it's quite relevant.

	15-09-2003 22:14									#6
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Elok:

I'm a big fan of CS Lewis as well.

While I have not read the screwtape letters, I have read Mere Christianity, and the Abolition of Man.

They are both excellent books. I received Mere Christianity for my baptism, and I still find myself re-reading all the arguments in favour of Christianity.

The Abolition of Man has more to do with the concept of what would an absolute morality comprise.

I would disagree with that approach to history. As a history major myself, the first question I find myself asking is the reliability of the source? Does the source corroborate with others that we have for this time period?

Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 16-09-2003 at 01:31

	16-09-2003 00:08									#7
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I read the Narnia series, and thought it was good..but I have already accepted that your taste in philosophy mirrors somewhat your choice in movies, and we all know what that was about.

	16-09-2003 00:56									#8
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I read Screwtape. Despite not being Christian, I found many parts of it very philosophically illuminating, although there were a few parts I found a little insulting. I also found some of it pretty funny, making it just about the only theology-related book that can claim that distinction.

	17-09-2003 02:28									#9
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Sorry I'm so late responding, my connection's been down...
Ben: How about the Great Divorce? It's not as ironic as Screwtape, but it has an interesting perspective on the nature of heaven and hell. I'd advise you to read both ASAP.
GePap: Who's making hastily invalid assumptions now? Seriously though, I would recommend that you read Screwtape even if you like Citizen Kane or Nietzsche for whatever perverse reason. It's a short book, so you have about an hour of time to lose.
Squid: What about it was insulting? All Screwtape's insolence is directed towards humanity in general, and his criticism of specific groups is largely confined to using them as examples or symptoms of a broader societal illness. I'm not enough of a jerk to suggest that it hit too close to home.

	17-09-2003 02:41									#10
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quote: Ben: How about the Great Divorce? It's not as ironic as Screwtape, but it has an interesting perspective on the nature of heaven and hell. I'd advise you to read both ASAP.

Thanks for the suggestion.

What is the main thesis of Great Divorce?

	17-09-2003 02:51									#11
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It's not an essay-type work, it's a piece of fiction like Screwtape. It's pretty strange actually; the occupants of Hell are given a chance to visit Heaven every day and may stay if they wish. The story centers around the reason why almost all of them choose to go back to Hell instead. They're too picky and spiteful to even enjoy Heaven, because it's not how they want it to be, and that's all they care about.

	17-09-2003 03:03									#12
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That would fit with C.S. Lewis's thoughts in Mere Christianity; personality problems that seem minor over the course of 70 years, may become absolutely unmanageable over thousands of years.

	17-09-2003 10:25									#13
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Sartre got one thing right: Hell is other people.

There's a classic Twilite Zone episode where a wise guy dies and finds himself in heaven. Big fancy house, pretty ladies hanging on his arm, has the golden touch at the gambling tables… except he starts getting bored. He's also puzzled about what he did to deserve heaven, so he asks his guide (who resembles a Kentucky Colonel). The guide says, "What makes you think this is heaven?"

	17-09-2003 13:25									#14
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I have vague memories of really enjoying the Screwtape Letters, especially the style while I was busy slipping off the liberal end of christianity. I probably should give it a reread if I can get my hands on a copy. On the other hand I found all the arguments presented in Mere Christianity really unconvincing and philosophically juvenile (but didn't get all that far without giving up in disgust). CS Lewis is a great fiction writer and satarist though, the Narnia books are still some of my favorites...

	17-09-2003 17:22									#15
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I never got around to Mere Christianity, though I have a copy somewhere. That's the first bad review I've seen of it...mind you, I haven't been looking for reviews of it tho.

	17-09-2003 19:40									#16
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Mere Christianity isn't intended to be hard philosophy or any such thing. It is Lewis' personal explanations for why and how to choose. Anyone failing to understand that such choices (including agnosticism or atheism) are fundamentally emotional rather than rational is off the mark.

	17-09-2003 20:04									#17
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I really liked "The Screwtape Letters." Thank you for reminding me to check it out of the library and read it again.

	17-09-2003 20:36									#18
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Screwtape letters was an excellent book I thought, one of the only theology books that many non-Christians can enjoy.

	18-09-2003 06:57									#19
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Elok:

I'll read screwtape letters over the next week or so, and you read Mere Christianity. Then we can post our reviews.

	18-09-2003 07:33									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Elok: I'll read screwtape letters over the next week or so, and you read Mere Christianity. Then we can post our reviews.

It isn't that long of a book, shouldn't take you a whole week unless you read it sporadically.

	18-09-2003 07:49									#21
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I have other readings.

And I wanted to give Elok some wiggle room.

	22-09-2003 06:32									#22
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Well, Hurricane Izzy knocked my power out on thursday and I only got it back about half an hour ago, so I've been a little short on reading light, plus I got, er, distracted by other readings myself, but I'm about halfway/three-quarters through MC. The reasoning isn't as tight as it is in his other books; that's the trick of Socratic reasoning, it takes a LOOOOOONG argument to eliminate every impossibility, and he seems to miss a few loopholes here and there. It's still a good read on the whole, and he makes some interesting points. It also seems pretty familiar in some parts, so either he says things very similar to what he said in "The Four Loves," which I know I read a long time ago, or I skimmed the book a while back and forgot that I read it. But I'll wait 'till I've completely finished for a final verdict. How about you, Ben?

	22-09-2003 06:52									#23
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I feel that reading this book separated me from being a cultural christian and being a real Christian. It made a veeery large difference in my conception of God, Salvation and several other things. I thank God for this book.

What I liked the most about the book (I read it recently and have a report on it pending) was the concept of God's "Unbounded Now" I had never thought of it that way before and after that Omnipresence, Omnicscience became not articles of faith, but self evident truths.

	22-09-2003 08:11									#24
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instead of talking about screwtape letters, I opt for the "lets pester Gepap" option.

	22-09-2003 08:22									#25
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How about me? Haven't started.

	22-09-2003 08:23									#26
	Re: The Screwtape Letters, or "Let's pester GePap" Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Elok As anybody who's ever looked at my sig can tell, I'm a big C.S. Lewis fan, and since there's been all this talk about Nietzsche lately I figure turnabout is fair play. Has anybody here read Screwtape? If so, what did you think of it? I'm especially interested in the opinion of non-Christians who read the book(it's about human thought in general as much as it is about religion, so it's worth a read for anybody). For those who've never heard of it or want a blurb anyway, the Screwtape Letters is a relatively short work of fiction from the 1940s that takes the form of a set of correspondence from an elderly and experience demon named Screwtape to his nephew Wormwood, advising him on the best ways of tempting a young man to ruin. It's extremely satirical in tone, going into what Lewis sees as flaws in modern thought in great detail, and probably my favorite book. I just want to see what the vast aggregate of OT opinions has to say about it.

Yes, I've read it. Unfrotunately I have no idea whjere my copy is. It is probably the most succinct work ever written by C.S. Lewis. The rest of his essays are unbearably repetitive.

	22-09-2003 15:48									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Yes, I've read it. Unfrotunately I have no idea whjere my copy is. It is probably the most succinct work ever written by C.S. Lewis. The rest of his essays are unbearably repetitive.

What are you gonna do? He's a self-proclaimed Socratic. His answer to a question is to violently and unceasingly beat it until it gives up the ghost.

	25-09-2003 05:09									#28
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Bump.

I've started the Screwtape Letters, Elok.