16-09-2003 02:32									#1
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The Scotland thread will be wrapping up soon, and I'd like to keep two going here....so, to that end, any sugesstions for what nation we can chart history for? I had considered Aragon on impossible level, perhaps? A major power, 'tis true, but I don't really know how many events they've got....attractive Iberian and Italian cultures, so that's nice.

Venice was another good possibility....some interesting cultures, but almost no events....and since we've already GOT a game going where there are no historical events, I wasn't sure if we wanted to make it two.

I definitely have no aversion to playing the majors (we'll just play on impossible level to keep things at least a little dicey), but...if the interest is there, and if anybody has any sugesstions....

-=Vel=-
EDIT: The only request/requirement I would make is...PLEASE don't stick me with some crappy little country that only has one culture. I HATE playing countries that only have a singular culture. Okay, "hate" is too strong a word, but it's so....confining. Bohemia is great, Savoy, Austira, of course, England, Brittany, Lorraine (yes!), Navarra....whole HOST of countries sporting multiple cultures, and any of them would be fine!

	16-09-2003 02:46									#2
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What about Byzantium? Lots of cultures and definately a challenge! If you use the AGC or the EEP, you'll get lots of interesting events as well.

	16-09-2003 02:48									#3
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Byzantium would be coolio! An excellent choice, that one! And with EEP....yeah (tho, they must get more cultures in EEP via events, cos IIRC, I started an EEP game with them once, and quit when I saw that they only had one culture?)

-=Vel=-

EDIT: One thing I remember about playing them....they have a REALLY groovy event that gives Italian culture IF you go Catholic for a while...nice, but it TOTALLY screws you for the 20-odd year period...OUCH!

	16-09-2003 06:27									#4
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I've been playing around with a user-made scenario called Fantasia-scramble a bit lately ... in my couple of spare moments anyway.
Its not bad at all although I've had a problem or two running it in 1.06.
Its similar to the original Fntasia scenario - single province start, all units can explore, automatic merchants/colonists, very tough natives, etc - except that instead of only 8 starting nations you have all of the original hundred or so plus all of the new nations that can form throughout the game.
Ideally you can colonise a couple of neighbouring provinces (once you've discovered them) but then you'll run into another nation and the fur starts flying.

Venice is great fun if you like a lot of leaders (I've just got the guy with +4 to siege! ) and the starting CoT but, as you've pointed out there aren't a whole lot of events.

OTOH if you want to stick to the GC and want significant events you could always try the Golden Horde ... they have significant events.

	16-09-2003 06:43									#5
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I second Byzantium. Not that I bother to read any of the AARs or anything, though...

	16-09-2003 16:36									#6
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i had a great game as novgorod a while back on impossible, and it would be interesting to see how'd you do. of course i reloaded many times, but i wonder if you could survive without reloading. of course if you do manage to form russia the rest of the game is usually pretty easy especially if you manage to get to the siberian corridor early(like i did).

	16-09-2003 18:06									#7
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The Byzantines can get Italian and Turkish(but then you won't get the conversions and culture changes from other events...) by events in the EEP. They have Greek and Slavonic from the start.

In the AGC, they can get Turkish(but then they once again won't get the conversions and culture changes...), Syrian(and some provinces will become Syrian if you choose to take it), armenian(I think the same implies here as with Syrian) and Slavonic. You start with noly Greek as your state culture.

	17-09-2003 00:53									#8
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Looks like Byzantium has the early lead, tho Nov sounds enticing too....

-=Vel=-

	17-09-2003 01:33									#9
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Hmmm...I don't know what sorts of cultures they may have, but Malacca could be entertaining....CoT....very nice!

	17-09-2003 18:25									#10
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Side note - while waiting for the council of lords to chime in re: Lorraine's future, I started a purely casual game as Aragon...FUN little country to play! Annexed Naples and just built my first refinery....not playing with any particular goal in mind, just trying to maintain an honorable rep and defend myself...haven't launched an aggressive war yet (tho early on, Naples attacked me, and I beat the snot out of them and took Apulia)....been interesting so far!

-=Vel=-

	17-09-2003 20:26									#11
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I'd stick with a country that isn't geared toward colonization. Makes for a more interesting game...

Here are some suggestions...

Poland is cool, although it may be too easy once you get over the hump - Sweden to the north, Russia to the northeast, Ottos to the south and the Austria-Hungary-Bohemia axis to the west. It took me a couple of shots to get it right. That game taught me the value of alliances. Oops, I think they may have only Polish culture - and not many CB shields, although it seems like everyone and their brother has one on them...

Da Viet, or one of the other Southeast Asian nations, though I do not know how many events they have. Still, having China in your backyard is fun. Don't know what culture(s) they have...

Do something with the Moslem group (not the Ottos - too easy - but a nation like Oman, Persia?) Moslemize Europe.

	17-09-2003 20:36									#12
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Hex, that's pure evil! I love it!

-=Vel=-

	22-09-2003 22:54									#13
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Update...I *did* start a Byzantium game, but I'm not really happy with it. Am growing, verging on reducing the OE to a one province minor, but...sheesh, what a grind! Add to that the fact that I'm mired in my religious troubles (took the nasty even to get Italian culture and essentially paralyzed myself for 20 years....OE jumped me once I was alone and without allies, and beat up on me with the help of Karaman and the Mamelukes....OUCH...but, we had two good leaders and eventually stemmed the tide (more or less). OE is down to two provs (one of which I have under siege, and the other is besieged by rebels, so they can't recruit)....but my country is falling apart at the seams! 12% inflation in just over 30 years, verging on having to take a second loan to just survive this fight, and IF I take OE territories, my already sucky stab cost is going to go thru the roof...then of course, when I switch back to orthodoxy, I'll be right back at -3 stab....I dunno....a tough row....

-=Vel=-

	22-09-2003 23:26									#14
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The union of churches event happens in the standard game and not just in EEP. EEP does add a bunch of new events though so it would be worth trying.

How about a nonwestern game? You cold play Ethiopia or Vijanger.

	22-09-2003 23:28									#15
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Failing that Triebizond is always fun. Especially if you retake Constantinople after the Turks have built a supply center there allowing you to become Byzantium.

	22-09-2003 23:51									#16
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Play Vij....one of my favorite non-western games...rockin'! And I think that once I've made the switch BACK to Orthodoxy as Byz, I'll be okay....not sure what kind of shape my poor nation will be in...that's a mighty harsh penalty to gain Italian culture, but....too juicy to pass on...so, if I can keep it together, and keep from going bankrupt between now and then, I think I'll be able to survive, but inflation is going to be sky high....

-=Vel=-

	22-09-2003 23:58									#17
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It doesn't make sense to go through the pain of switching to Catholicism and then switch back to Orthodoxy. The richest proviences in Europe are Catholic and Catholics get a research bonus over Orthodoxed countries.

	23-09-2003 00:03									#18
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No choice, really. With a monthly income of 4d, there's no way I can afford a (risky, expensive) shot at conversion of the Italian provinces, and all of my provinces are already orthodox...it would be an uphill battle in the extreme if I don't switch back. Besides, I know I can beat the snot out of the AI, research bonus or no....easier and less painful to just eat the -6 stab hit and go back as soon as I'm able...then make up the tech difference with good, aggressive research tactics...

-=Vel=-

	23-09-2003 00:48									#19
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Catholics DO NOT get a research bonus over orthodox countries! It's what technology group you are in that determines that. The only way to swich group btw, is through event. In the long run it is best to be catholic IF you want to conquer Europe(which I don't do, it's MUCH more fun to convert Mekka and MEdina!), and IF you can manage the problems that comes with it. And that isn't exactly easy, as you've seen, Vel. BTW, if you get enough of the rich provinces in North-East Africa and West Asia, you won't need the Italian state culture anyway.

	23-09-2003 00:57									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, I don't intend to conquer all of Europe, but I'd like the overall "shape" of my holdings to resemble the Roman Empire of old, so I'll focus on turning the Med into my own private lake, and leave the barbarians in Gaul and the Teutons to themselves....

-=Vel=-

	23-09-2003 09:59									#21
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If you keep your slider towards intolerant you will get several spontanious conversions and since you already have Greek, Slavonic and Italian cultures with shields on most of the important proviences it shouldn't be hard to convert all of the Greek proviences except Constantinople.

	23-09-2003 10:15									#22
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But if you play the EEP, you won't get any of the aforementioned goodie events if you are catholic.

	23-09-2003 18:28									#23
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Yep...just discovered that and started over, since the whole point of playing EEP was to get the extra events....so....I started fresh, with a mind to remain Orthodox....should make for an interesting game....

-=Vel=-

EDIT: Worse, I discovered that if you switch to Catholic to get Italian culture, if you switch back to Orthodox later, you lose it. I always thought you got to keep it if you switch back....that would make sense, and certainly be a just reward for the HELL you have to endure to get it in the first place....not much point in making the switch, really, unless you just like playing the role of the masochist....

	30-09-2003 15:11									#24
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i know u don't like plazing one culture nations but how about unifzing Germany bz Meklemburgen... there is at leas CoT...

	30-09-2003 21:50									#25
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If I wanted to unify the German culture then I'd go for Austria or Brandinburg as they will at least have events and great leaders.

	30-09-2003 22:15									#26
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well i understood that we're looking for sth challengin', and ...Austria -?!- Austria will get its handful of prov anyway