Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Ah bloody hell. MS IE screwed, and we're screwed too.
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread   
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:30
Thumbs down  Old Post 16-09-2003 02:53 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Ah bloody hell. MS IE screwed, and we're screwed too. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

This decision totally screws: Microsoft, web designers, and web users. Patenting ****ing PLUG-INS!?!?!?

IE patent endgame detailed
Last modified: September 11, 2003, 12:22 PM PDT
By Paul Festa
Staff Writer, CNET News.com


Microsoft has suffered another legal setback in the patent dispute with software developer Eolas and is now advising Web authors on workarounds, as new details emerge of its plans to tweak Internet Explorer.

A federal judge last week rejected Microsoft's post-trial claim that Eolas had misrepresented the facts in the patent case, which claimed the software giant had stolen browser technology relating to plug-ins. The ruling came after a $521 million verdict against the software giant last month, and ends Microsoft's first attempt to challenge the result.

Several more post-trial motions remain to be dispensed, and Microsoft doesn't expect a final judgment in this round to be handed down until October or November. After that, Microsoft has 30 days to decide whether to appeal, which it has pledged to do.

Still, last week's loss on claims of "inequitable conduct" heightened the sense that not only Microsoft but the entire Web may soon be forced to make substantial adjustments--and that pages around the Web and on private intranets will have to be rewritten to work with an altered IE.

"If you're currently using a plug-in, you will have to change your pages quite significantly," said one person familiar with Microsoft's post-verdict plans. "There might be tools to help you do so, but currently they don't exist."

Regardless of whether the court orders Microsoft to change IE, the software giant has been conferring with its own engineers and those of companies that rely on the browser's ability to automatically launch and display multimedia programs with plug-ins--an ability the court held to be, in its current form, an infringement of the Eolas patent.

Now Microsoft, while expressing optimism that it will ultimately prevail over Eolas in the courts, is advising Web authors to take precautions and prepare for a post-Eolas world.

"We believe we are going to be successful, but the wrong thing to do is to sit back and wait for the legal process to play out," said Michael Wallent, a general manager in Microsoft's Windows division who ran the IE team for versions 5.5 and 6, and who has been involved in the Eolas defense since the suit was filed. "There are technologies that are already used today (that aren't covered by the verdict) and all we are saying is, given the choice, use the technologies that are already available to you."

Those techniques involve using scripting languages and the set of technologies marketed as dynamic HTML (DHTML) to launch external applications--a commonly available and familiar method that Microsoft does not believe infringes on the patent.

Eolas and its lawyers did not return calls seeking comment.

Wallent cited CNN.com as an example of a site that uses Macromedia Flash--a technology many consider particularly vulnerable to the patent's claims--in a non-infringing way.

While Microsoft dispenses advice and stays mum on details of the workarounds it is contemplating for IE, sources who attended the company's recent strategy session with the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)--hosted in San Francisco by Macromedia--described various methods the company proposed for evading the particulars of the Eolas patent in launching applications like Macromedia Flash, Java applets and Adobe's Acrobat Reader.

According to these sources, Microsoft said at the meeting that it believed a simple dialog box inserted between the selection and the launch of a Java applet or an ActiveX control would maneuver IE out of the patent's definition of an "automated interactive experience."

Microsoft also is said to have proposed other ways to launch applications in a way that could not be held to infringe on the patent, but would avoid the ungainly dialog box solution.

One such option would move the data to the Web page itself, rather than pulling it from an external source. In Microsoft's view, attendees said, the patent only covers a situation in which the Web page called up data located elsewhere. The company is said to have told attendees that it believes so-called inline data falls outside the Eolas patent claims because it is described in the HTML protocol published in 1991--three years before the initial Eolas patent filing.

To answer complaints that such a method would weigh down pages with heavy data loads, Microsoft proposed shifting that data to a separate frame.

While declining to comment on the specifics of the meeting or its plans for IE, Microsoft did warn that the Eolas patent threatened more than just Internet Explorer.

"This is not an issue just for IE," said Wallent. "This is a potential issue for Netscape Navigator, for Opera and for other browser vendors. This is an industry issue."

One attendee of the meeting who asked not to be named said that while Microsoft's workarounds were technically promising, their legal soundness was uncertain.

Worse, this attendee said, the implementation of the workarounds would require a huge amount of work on the part of Web authors.

"When you think about this, having to go around the patent highlights the stupidity of the patent system," he said. "Everyone in the field is very saddened by the whole thing, that we have to go through this exercise. The W3C has worked very hard to make the Web remain patent free and this might be the one thing that screws it all up. It's really very frustrating."

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 02:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

So Eolas is claiming to have a patent on a specific plug in or on the idea of a plug in?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 02:56 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Opera browser.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 02:59 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
So Eolas is claiming to have a patent on a specific plug in or on the idea of a plug in?


Apparently on the idea of the plug-in.

Sloww, this ruling will affect Opera and Mozilla too. It's just that MS has the deep pockets for the half billion dollar payoff.

quote:
"This is not an issue just for IE," said Wallent. "This is a potential issue for Netscape Navigator, for Opera and for other browser vendors. This is an industry issue."


Tell you how this could screw alternative broswers if this is held up. MS loses, then buys Eolas, and denies competitors the ablity to use the technology.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:01 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

If Eolas succeeds, everyone who uses plug-ins on their site is gonna have to do a redesign, which means it's goin to cost them money.

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

Donate to the Red Cross
Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:02 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Tell you how this could screw alternative broswers if this is held up. MS loses, then buys Eolas, and denies competitors the ablity to use the technology.


Congrats Che... you are now thinking like a typical MS Upper Level Executive. I'm impressed

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
King
of The Cooler
Sep 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:02 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Affect all other's too????


Che, you up for a hanging ?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Hmmm, isn't a plug in essentially just a software patch that adds an extra feature or an ability to execute a new file type? If so then I'm not seeing where the innovation which merites a patent comes in. Wouldn't a plug in essentially just be a name for an idea (a software patch) that's been in use for decades?

JCG is offline JCG
Prince
between a rock and a hard place
Feb 2002
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'm not going to "update" any of my browsers when these changes are made effective then, tough luck...

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
time: 05:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:08 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

Can I patent the idea of an alphabet? Then every letter anyone ever writes or posts and makes a profit out of will have to pay me

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:08 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Congrats Che... you are now thinking like a typical MS Upper Level Executive. I'm impressed


I can be evil and sneaky when I have to be. I've been playing Risk since I was ten.

I had a manager tell me he couldn't give me change for a dollar so I could make a phone call. So I bought a 15 cents piece of candy, then demanded a refund.

MattH is offline MattH
King
Go sneer at that cow creamer!
Jul 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 03:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What happened to Asher?

monolith94 is offline monolith94
Emperor
New England
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 05:17 Visit monolith94's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

I've been playing risk since I was 7.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 05:49
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote:
Originally posted by MattH
What happened to Asher?


Worshiping Bill Gates, as usual.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 06:31
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Asher is apparently on a self-imposed vacation.

yavoon is offline yavoon
Warlord

Oct 2001
time: 05:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 06:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

whats taking asher?

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 06:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What? They've patented the concept of a plug in? What's next? And why isn't anyone else getting on this money train by trying to do something like patent the idea of an OS or media player?

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 06:44 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

I guess the fact that Acrobat Reader is an external application for Opera is now a "feature" rather than a bungle.:P

Don't know how much Mozilla will be affected by this. Their extensions are somewhat different from normal plug-ins.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 08:35 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

Why don't you just relax and accept the FACT that Microsoft OWNS YOUR AZZEZZ!!!!!!!

STOP FIGHTING IT

YOU'RE ONLY MAKING YOUR LIFE HARDER ON YOURSELF!!!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 08:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

I think this patent claim will eventually be thrown out on the basis of "too broad" and probably "not specific."

Maybe even like JPEG, that the patent has not been enforced before, so they cannot enforce it now.

I hate these so called "IP companies." They buy up bankrupted outfits with dubious patents, then throw lawsuits around trying to make a quick buck. Damn parasites

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 08:41 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

The GIF patent is being enforced though

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 10:33 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

GIF expired.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 10:38
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Tell you how this could screw alternative broswers if this is held up. MS loses, then buys Eolas, and denies competitors the ablity to use the technology.


And jumps right back into more litigation? Not likely.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
Question  Old Post 16-09-2003 10:58 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Asher
GIF expired.


When?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 11:05 Visit Asher's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Few months ago.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 11:10 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yay!

Now I can save my GIF files on the Gimp!!!

NOT

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 11:11 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If this keeps up, somebody's going to lay claim the the "idea" of the Internet in general and file a lawsuit. Yeah, yeah, it started in the 1960s as a government thing, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good lawsuit.

Frickin' gold diggers. Someone oughta cause a cave-in on their crappy little party.

Gatekeeper

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 11:13 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

Al Gore already invented the internet

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 12:12
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

Mozillah!

C0ckney is offline C0ckney
Prince
Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:30
  Old Post 16-09-2003 12:33
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Can I patent the idea of an alphabet? Then every letter anyone ever writes or posts and makes a profit out of will have to pay me


dunno if you heard about it but a couple of years back some cheeky bastards in russia managed to get away with patenting a feature that is common to all bottles (and as a result claimed about $4 billion), because the people at the russian patents deparment didn't undertand what the application was for

 
Pages (2): [ 1   2   ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0531 seconds (91.34% PHP - 8.66% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net