16-09-2003 17:06									#1
	Interfactional Debate 2. - Hive. vs Uni and Drones Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Interfactional Debate 2. - Hive. vs Uni and Drones

Topic: Repeated Nervestapling is Perfectly Safe.

The defending team is: The Hive
Voltaire - Debating Team Leader
EZRhino
Vev
Vander

The opposing team is: University and Drones
GeneralTacticus - Debating Team Leader
Jtsisyoda
AdamTG02
Crimson Sunrise

Write up your arguments. Whoever is ready to post their arguments first should do so.

	18-09-2003 12:00									#2
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I shall begin:

*Ahem*

Nervestapling has always been a time honoured tradition passed down within generations amongst the Hivers. Ask anyone in the Hive and they will remembered being nervestapled before. While the degree of enjoyment during nervestapling may vary with people, nothing shows to suggest that they suffered any ill effects from such exposure. Contrary, the Hive citizens all lead a healthy, productive lifestyle for the good of all. Although the same could not be said of some of the Party members and we blamed that on the lack of nervestapling they received.

Studies in the Hive have shown that nervestapling improved productivity and general wellbeing of character. Once what was an apathetic or rebellious drone, gradually under the steadifying influence of controlled nervestapling, become a normal productive worker. Thus the benefits of nervestapling is what help makes the Hive strong.

All the horror stories of nervestapling that went tragically wrong were due to the work of non-state sanctioned nervestapler personnel. Under the hands of a state-approved well-trained operator, nervestapling is no more risky that having your hair cut. All qualified operators had to undergo an intensive 18 month course learning the finer arts of nervestapling. To the Hive, nervestapling is no crude clumsy tool to blugeon drones into submission, rather the operators are trained to apply deft touches that gives maximum effect.

	19-09-2003 08:57									#3
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I encourage either the University or the Drones to respond to this (poor) argument.

	19-09-2003 12:35									#4
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We're working on it.

	20-09-2003 03:10									#5
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I have already posted this in the Cycon Verse Peace debate but I should also post it here before real debate combat commences here:


INITIALLY POSTED IN CYCON VERSES PEACE DEBATE THREAD:


Please. For ease of following and judging the debate, identify who you are and which side you are arguing for at the beginning of your post.

It will be much easier for me, and I suspect the other judges, to file the salient salvos launched by each side if the response was as follows:

Began as
[NAME for FACTION]: followed by the debate.




Some of the response so far have made me chuckle (which is a good thing). I am sure all those posting their arguments will wish to ensure that they make it Very Easy for the judges to know, and record, which side made these most convincing (and entertaining) arguments.


Mead (a formerly an interested but now as judge, of course, a disinterested observer)

	21-09-2003 06:46									#6
	AdamTG02 for the Planet University of Technology Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Nerve stapling actually has immediate and deleterious effects -- it stifles individual initiative, destroying the creativity and flexibility of thought necessary for a cultural of scientific excellence. The proof of this is that nerve stapling will destroy a Talent's outstanding abilities, making him or her a common citizen. While these faculties can be slowly recovered in time, the meager beneficial effects of the nerve stapling -- stability -- are also not permanent.

Nerve stapling is only a temporary solution. After a certain number of nerve staplings, the technique becomes less and less effective at pacifying drones, while it remains just as effective at disrupting the functions of the highly intelligent. Nerve stapling is thus a way of foisting ones security problems off on one's children and grandchildren -- hardly a safe means of riot control.

The security and heath of the group at large is also threatened by nerve stapling -- because it is recognized by the UN as an atrocity. This allows any faction leader to use nerve stapling as an excuse to carry a Vendetta against the nerve staplers. The threat of faction leaders teaming up to destroy the perpetrators of an atrocity is certainly dangerous to the health of the group -- for a faction espousing adherence to a group-based model of selfhood, this should be decisive. On the other hand, for a faction espousing the individual self, the deleterious effects of nerve stapling on the creative spirit are decisive.

{edited for typographical errors}

Last edited by AdamTG02 on 21-09-2003 at 07:36

	23-09-2003 12:56									#7
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Well this isn't really my kind of roleplay, but I can pretend if it gets this debate moving again. Clears throat and pretends to be an evil arrogant minister.

What the University's first speaker failed to address properly is whether the repeative nerve stapling is safe. The moral and effectiveness of nerve stapling is not in question in this debate. Indeed morality of what we do to our citizens is rarely questioned at the hive. It is believed the university has a similar understanding with its citizens. They are simply not as open about it.

The quoted lack of long term "effectiveness" of nerve stapling is actually a strong argument that repeative nerve stapling is perfectly safe. As obviously the treatments can be stopped at anytime and the citizen will regain his previous abilities.

It is conceded that backlash under the UN charter may cause health problems to citizens of a particular faction that repeatively nerve staples. This is based on the assumption that a weak faction is nerve stapling the citizens, and that is rarely the case. In reality this is but a simple side effect that will undoubtedly end with the demise of the attacking faction.

Nerve stapling has never been know to directly claims lives, although abhorrence to nerve stapling has often led to citizens dying in riots or in worst cases civil war. It does not stifle growth either as it actually encourages citizens to rut like rabbits, since they are unable to pursue more complex hobbies.

Tests on children have been conducted to explore the effect of nerve stapling. Admittedly, there were fatalities during the early stages of testing. However, after the procedure was perfected and the nurse realised she was mistakenly using a nail gun, the orphans stopped dying from shock sustained during the stapling. It is a know fact that children are the most frail, most useless, and weakest of our community. From the fact that we are now having a 100% success rate with the children it is not a difficult leap to realise that it must be safe for adults and the elderly too.

I would also like to promote my new book based on my extensive and selfless work with the orphans.


After this debate I will be available to do autographs.

Last edited by Kody on 19-06-2004 at 12:27

	24-09-2003 02:31									#8
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****
Message from Free Drone Med Center.
****

We regret to inform you the entire Drone debate team has been hospitalized. Drone medics have undertaken an investigation into the root cause of their hyothermia. The investigation so far shows their team meeting met a terrible end when they were unable to program their environmental controls correctly. Their ability to turn down the air conditioning was critically impaired after recently making arrangements for the debate in a nerve-stapled Hive city. The Hive has characteristically denied any wrong-doing, but anonymous sources within the Hive have implicated the Hive debate team. These sources say the Drone team was nerve-stapled to prevent them from competing on a level playing field for the debate.

We leave the implications of this international incident to the politicians. Meanwhile, when the Drone debate team heals, serious consideration is being given to medically restrict them to work-- real work-- in factories, not this vain and useless brain stroking you call a debate. Look where it has led so far.

****
End of message.
****

Last edited by jtsisyoda on 24-09-2003 at 02:38

	24-09-2003 02:36									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

HongHu for Hive:Repeated Nervestapling is Perfectly Safe

Is repeated nervestapling safe? Rumors have that repeated nervestapling stifles individual initiative and destroys a Talent's outstanding abilities, and is dangerous to the health of the group for it invites Vendetta from other factions against the nerve staplers.

We do not need to go far to show everybody that the captalistic propagandas are simply outrageous lies against the truth. Here in the Hive, we have an exellent talent, who presents outstanding abilities. People from all factions have witnessed him going through repeated nervestaplings. It is public knowledge that he had been scheduled to interview with Comrade Vev in the enlightment center at least twice when he worked for Pravada. What is unknown to the public is that the total number of enlightments he has got up to doay is over 5 times. The result of the nervestapling enlightments has turned out to be the most glorious. He has shown the greatest initiative and flexibility. He single handedly managed all productions in the Hive and continuously carried out multiple tasks. His accomplishments spread to each and every area that an human being could ever imagine. He created the hello thread, planned interfactional debates, traced activities of all members of each faction, sold base names and Tass's head ... and there are many more accomplishments that are confidential and semi-confidential and you may or may not be awared of but I'm not going to list them all here. His nerve system has not broke down, his health is perfect so he does not miss even one day's work. He has even attempted to protect the health of the group by attracting much attention and flaming from other factions so the chance of Vendetta from other factions against the Hive has actually been reduced because people's anger were channelled through other means. By far I'm sure you all know who I am talking about. And I'm sure you will all agree with me that he is a living example that repeated nervestapling is perfectly safe.

I could give you more examples such as a comrade who after going through 72 hours of training in Rm 103, has come out with the most extensive plan of base placement and started to work for the party's 10 children policy nonstoppingly. These kind of examples are too many. But I know I really don't need to say more. Just look around you. You see them everywhere. Form the conclusion yourself. Is repeated nervestapling perfectly safe?

* Crowd cheering: YYYYEEEESSSS!!!
* Long nonstopping applauses

	29-09-2003 05:52									#10
	Mead Starts Deliberating Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I am leaning to awarding the Victory to the Hive.

Vev, as he admits it, is truly evil. (He role-plays well).

The Hive's arguments may have convinced that, yes, Nerve Stapling (NS) may very well be an essential element of a societies well being.

Strong points of Hive initial argument:
NS has a long history within the Hive.

NS make the Hive strong. NS would make any well-ordered society strong. If it is not well ordered, then it doesn't deserve to live anyway.

NS techniques have improved dramatically over the lengthy development


Strong points of Uni argument:

Points out that NS destroys Talent's abilities making them into a common citizen. This is something that the judge was not aware of, because this judge has not used NS in his games.

Points out that NS, similar to a painkilling medication, is only a temporary solution, and that greater dosages are required as the populace develops a 'tolerance' to the NS and NS becomes less effective.

Points out that NS may endanger the group by incurring atrocity sanctions and vendettas if NS is used. Also points out in factions that value the individual, NS has deleterious [I had to look this word up in Webster's Dictionary to make sure I knew what it meant: deleterious - adjective - Injuries; pernicious; harmful to health or well being.] effects. Was the use of the word intentional? If so it was good role-playing by the Uni.

Notable points of Hive's rebuttal:

Vev gets into character.

He argues that only weak factions that NS are in danger. Argues that usually only strong factions NS. I guess he implies that the weak deserve to die?

He notes that the absence of NS in several societies has caused deaths, which could have been averted if the faction had NS. Notes NS does, indeed, increase procreation.

He notes, at his most evil self, that children did die from the NS, but callously commented that they are the most frail, useless, and weakest of the community. He could have expanded this evil thread out by calling them the most expendable.

He shamelessly plugs his new book.

There was not Uni or Drone counter to the second Hive argument. Shame, perhaps it could have turned the tide.


Overall

Uni made three good arguments but was outdone by the persuasions and better role-playing of the Hive.

HongHu's Testimonial of another satisfied Nerve Stapler was entertaining.

I am waiting to hear and consider my fellow judges thoughts before I cast my vote.


Mead

	03-10-2003 06:46									#11
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Seeing that there has been no Deliberation, nor votes, from the other Judges. I am, own my own authority, whatever that is, declaring a Victor.

HIVE is the VICTOR. DEFEATS UNIVERSITY and DRONES.


Mead

	03-10-2003 06:51									#12
	Remove this text

BOOOO. HISSSS. The Hive should have been disqualified for their plot to disable the Drones.

	03-10-2003 07:14									#13
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Go Mead.

Now you just have to think of a new debating topics. Find out which topics teams would like to debate, then organise the next set of debates.