18-09-2003 07:54									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: I say we blow the thing out of the sky. Space is ours, you dirty communists. Uh, they (Communists) were there first.

No, we were with a small rocket in the late 40s or real early 50s.
The Soviet were first with a sat. and with a human even with the first one or two that were lost before Yuri flight. That is still a secret in Russia.

	18-09-2003 19:33									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

a small rocket can't carry a flag and claim vacuum for a country.

then again, neither can a person.

space is international, you w*nkers.

	18-09-2003 19:37									#33
	Got spare money?

The sad part about Chinas space program is it will be completely secret. They will share nothing with the world even if they are successful. So... what's the point??

	18-09-2003 19:42									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

well, that way, if they fail, nobody knows.

	18-09-2003 19:43									#35
	Tired of ads?

I think the main point is to build intercntential ballistic missiles, to get int o the stalitte launching business, and to sooth their bruised egos about historically being kicked around by the West and the Japanese.

	18-09-2003 20:28									#36
	Re: China's manned space flight program. Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The Chinese government has announced that they will launch a manned Shenzhou 5 rocket by the end of the year. The Chinese media is saying that the launch of a Chinese rocket will "symbolize China's significant breakthrough in space flight and aerospace business". While I applaud China for building a manned space flight mission I really don't see who this is anything more then a giant pissing context because they're just doing what the Soviets and Americans did 50 years ago. Also it's perfectly clear the EU and Japan could have had manned space programs decades ago if they wanted to but the truth is there is very little money to be made in such a program so they haven't bothered. The main issue for the Chinese seems to be soothing their bruised egos about being a second rate power for most of the last millenium. Wouldn't the money be better spent by providing water and power to the hundreds of millions of Chinese peasants who make less then $200 per year? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3112322.stm

If you can launch a spacecraft like this you're not far from a real ICBM.

Thanks again Bill for supporting the Chinese "space program"

	18-09-2003 21:01									#37
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: I think the main point is to build intercntential ballistic missiles, to get int o the stalitte launching business

Uh, hello ... China already has ICBMS (albeit old ones) and China is already one of the world's leaders for launching satellites. They even launch them for US corps.

As I've said in earlier threads on this topic, it's clearly a national prestige program that may have some ancillary benefits (spin-off techs, infrastructure development, experience and skills, etc.).

China has other such programs either under its belt or under development. Three Gorges Dam, Shanghai maglev railway, world's largest shipyard, incredibly big/long bridges, etc.

Damn, don't you guys play Civilization? Have you forgotten the importance of building Wonders of the World? Sometimes the symblic value of a great undertaking is more important than any practical or immediate benefit.

	18-09-2003 21:06									#38
	Get a bigger avatar today!

yeah, but you can usually buy those wonders in one turn without any deaths.

	18-09-2003 21:07									#39
	Put an end to popups!

quote: If you can launch a spacecraft like this you're not far from a real ICBM.

They already have ICBMs (albeit relatively old ones) capable fo striking the US.

quote: Thanks again Bill for supporting the Chinese "space program"

Nice try, but the USSR/Russia was/is far, far more influential on the PRC's space program than anything they gained dring the Clinton admin.

	18-09-2003 21:08									#40
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Ten. Using Technology we already have. We don't even need any "Battlestar Galactica" ships, just a couple of super-heavy boosters.

Getting astronauts there is easy. Getting them there and having them not die rapidly because of radiation damage and preventing the huge muscle and bone wastage that they'd suffer on the journey, so that they could actually function on a return to the Earth are the difficult bits.

	18-09-2003 21:18									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

a haircut costs 25 quid i america, do they use gold scissors or something?

and i'm all for sending the chinese leadership into space, and leaving them there

	19-09-2003 01:46									#42
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: a haircut costs 25 quid i america, do they use gold scissors or something?

Scissors? Try lasers.

Another China-US haircut comparison:
* Cost of a haircut in a hair salon in San Francisco: about $30
* Cost of a blowjob in a hair salon in Shanghai: about $12

Hair salons provide a broader range of service here.

	19-09-2003 02:00									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: In San Francisco, a haircut (with tip) cost me about $35.

Are you serious?

I got a haircut yesterday for $14.

-Arrian

	19-09-2003 03:26									#44
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

So now, instead of little green men we will get little yellow men?

	19-09-2003 05:55									#45
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie So now, instead of little green men we will get little yellow men?

that's terrible...

	19-09-2003 06:04									#46
	Put an end to popups!

china will, like all other communist states, find that all they can do is keep up... and in the end fall.

	19-09-2003 06:06									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

no because Ronald Reagan isn't around to make them bankrupt their economy by building tens of thousands of nukes...

	19-09-2003 06:18									#48
	Inflate your Upload Space

no, because shackling your citizen's under a rifle and fear isn't going to bring out their and yor country's best.

	19-09-2003 06:24									#49
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sava no because Ronald Reagan isn't around to make them bankrupt their economy by building tens of thousands of nukes...

How dare he!

	19-09-2003 06:31									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 no, because shackling your citizen's under a rifle and fear isn't going to bring out their and yor country's best.

economic slavery in a trickle up system does??

quote: How dare he!

you'll be saying that if a Russian made nuke goes off in a US city... god forbid...

	19-09-2003 06:34									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by C0ckney a haircut costs 25 quid i america, do they use gold scissors or something? and i'm all for sending the chinese leadership into space, and leaving them there

I pay $9 plus a $2 tip.

	19-09-2003 06:45									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Sava, You crack me up!!

quote: Uh, hello ... China already has ICBMS (albeit old ones) and China is already one of the world's leaders for launching satellites. They even launch them for US corps.

Yes they have 54. None of the current 54 they have are capable of reaching all parts of the United States. They are currently upgrading all of them (with the "new" technolgy they "aquired") so that they will be able to hit any point in the world. China's problem was never the boost phase to orbit, but rather the tech to effectively guide a rocket.

	19-09-2003 08:49									#53
	Suffering from ads?

quote: I got a haircut yesterday for $14.

Well, I wasn't counting that place at the bus station.

edit: spelling

	19-09-2003 08:51									#54
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: they have 54. None of the current 54 they have are capable of reaching all parts of the United States.

Good enough for deterrent's sake!

	19-09-2003 08:58									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 china will, like all other communist states, find that all they can do is keep up... and in the end fall.

Gee, that's nice, except for two little problems:
(a) Do you really think contemporary China is "communist"?
(b) Do you really think China (politically, economically, socially, etc) is like any other country in the world?

Other than those two little problems, you're spot-on, mate!

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 no, because shackling your citizen's under a rifle and fear isn't going to bring out their and yor country's best.

Are you trying to talk about China again? If you are, it sure doesn't sound like the China I live in. I can't even recall the last time I actually saw a soldier, much less a rifle. Far fewer cops than in the US, too (and the ones you do see are usually directing traffic).

	19-09-2003 18:19									#56
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: If you can launch a spacecraft like this you're not far from a real ICBM. They already have ICBMs (albeit relatively old ones) capable fo striking the US. quote: Thanks again Bill for supporting the Chinese "space program" Nice try, but the USSR/Russia was/is far, far more influential on the PRC's space program than anything they gained dring the Clinton admin.

Plato already correctly answered the first part (and after a little thought the second part).

	21-09-2003 01:54									#57
	Suffering from ads?

So does China copying a Russian rocket design still constitute a major advancement in Chinese Aerospace?

	21-09-2003 08:59									#58
	Support Apolyton

quote: So does China copying a Russian rocket design still constitute a major advancement in Chinese Aerospace?

What, are you kidding? There's a lot more to spaceflight than just manufacturing some sophisticated hardware (no small feat in itself).

	21-09-2003 10:59									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by mindseye What, are you kidding? There's a lot more to spaceflight than just manufacturing some sophisticated hardware (no small feat in itself).

Yeah!

Sheesh, haven't these people played Civ?

	21-09-2003 15:22									#60
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MikeH Getting astronauts there is easy. Getting them there and having them not die rapidly because of radiation damage and preventing the huge muscle and bone wastage that they'd suffer on the journey, so that they could actually function on a return to the Earth are the difficult bits.

Dammnit; seems like every time I poke my nose into the OT someone is trotting out this line. I should save a response to it.

The radiation on a flight to Mars would be bad for you; but in much the same sense as smoking is bad for you, not in the sense that you would die horribly on the way. The levels just aren't that bad, perhaps excepting during sunspots, when you would retreat into a radiation shelter for a day or so.

Muscle wastage is a problem when you are off earth for a couple of years, and it requires some adjustment when you come back. But don't forget that Polyakov walked away from his capsule after 18 months in zero-g. The astronauts would be spending much of their time in 1/3-g, so their difficulties shouldn't be much worse than that.

I can't see any insurmountable barriers to going to Mars, other than lack of the will to do so.