17-09-2003 09:00									#1
	Sunspot activity rules Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I posted this at the multiplayer forum but had not gotten any answer so I thought I would seek suggestions here.

The question is: what are common rules regarding sunspot activities in a pbem? For example, is communication allowed at all? What about probing activities? Normally pbem rules have that you must declare vendetta if you conduct any probing activity other than infiltration. But supposely you wouldn't be able to do that in the sunspot activity period. So are you allowed to conduct probing activity at all? I would think that it would not be fair if you could get away from doing so and not notify the other party?

	17-09-2003 21:19									#2
	Remove this text

I have never played PBEM but it seems very odd to me that you would have a rule that requires a person to declare Vendetta before using Probe Teams. I mean they are COVERT after all. Its up too the other guy to declare war on you for doing it right? Is their some place ware all these odd PBEM rules are listed, I would like to read about them.

	17-09-2003 21:28									#3
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Good point. And what's more you have to let the other party know what you have done too. Like if you have stole a tech you need to tell him which tech you stole IIRC. It does sound a little odd to me. But I'm sure there are some reasons behind it.

	17-09-2003 21:48									#4
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AFAIK you only need to declare vendetta if your probe team is caught while trying to probe something. When you are caught, a message box immediately appears asking to declare vendetta or not. The problem is that message box is meant for the victim faction and should normally appear in the victim's turn. Due to a bug or bad design feature that box appears in the turn of the prober. So it is only normal you have to declare vendetta. Otherwise the victim factions would never know what had happened, while logically speaking they should, if it weren't for the bug.

	17-09-2003 22:08									#5
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Ahh that makes sense. I guess we need to change the following rule in my pbem then:

quote: If you perform a probe team action other than to infiltrate against another player with whom you are in a truce, treaty or pact, you must inform the probed player what it was you did and what you stole/sabotaged. You must also choose the 'declare vendetta/cancel pact' option when you perform the action.

And I just looked it up the same rule is in our ACDG game too.

It is also in the CGN pbem rule.

Anybody got any explanation?

	24-09-2003 03:11									#6
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RE the sunspot question

WE never have sunspots in PBEMs that I can ever recall. I believe that sunspots are random events and these are turned off in every PBEM I ever played in


The probe rule

Simple . . . its a game bug which means that the player doing the probing gets the notification and option to declare vendetta instead of the victim. So the victim finds himself at vendetta with a notification from the perpetrator of what happened. THis is the only way the PBEM community could come up with to reflect what should happen

Apparently the 2 times I have not been given the vendetta option were bugs ( within the bug) and it WAS NOT a result of my probe succeeding in its probe action and escaping undetected.

	24-09-2003 04:51									#7
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Regarding the covert in covert probe team operations:
I believe covert operations are only possible when you have the option to frame another faction for your own actions -- consider how you are informed of probe actions against you in normal single player games: you always get a notification and when applicable a vendetta option. A successful framing attempt is the only way to escape undetected. If this 'framing attempt' is successful (i.e. your probe team returns unharmed), then the opereation has been covert and hence no need to inform the probed player in PBEM -- seemingly. BUT: Is the target player informed of the probe action performed by 'a framed faction'? If 'yes' then I see no problem. If 'no' then the bug really prevents covert operations, since it would seem odd if I had to inform another player that some third faction has probed him/her (otherwise no faction has been framed, the probe action was simply covert). Such information really points my way!!!

You do, however, have alternatives (House Rules): If probing is succesful then you need NOT inform the target player ... or probing is ALWAYS covert or 'only covert when combined with a successful framing attempt', etc. Of course, probing the AI -- or the AI probes you -- is still determined/controlled by the game mechanics, I believe.

Regarding sunspots: Is sunspot activity a random event in the game? I'm not sure!

	24-09-2003 18:56									#8
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Well I thought we have turned of random event in our pbem but we are getting sunspot activities.

As for the probe operations, wouldn't the rule be surficient that if you perferm probing and was giving a window where you can declare vendetta, then you must do it? If you are not giving that window I would assume that means you have escaped undetected.