17-09-2003 14:26									#1
	AI cheating : please remove this issue in Conquests Inflate your Upload Space

Several times in CIVIII AI attacked me into ancient times ( where there were no spies ) always in the only city where I had for a moment no defense units.

This is not luck,bacause the AI every time have choosen the only city " empty " choosing among dozens city.

Please make it real

Gunter

	17-09-2003 14:43									#2
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That is hard to make. Civ 3 has one of th emost advanced AIs ever, but still it needs the cheats. I prefer a cheating AI before an easy one.

	17-09-2003 15:06									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by statusperfect That is hard to make. Civ 3 has one of th emost advanced AIs ever, but still it needs the cheats. I prefer a cheating AI before an easy one.

Mmhhh..this is an admission of guiltiness.

For sure you are right,but if you compare your statements to the units fighting algorythms a scary scenario comes into my mind.

Several times have also happened that I had the impression that moving from lower level to higher ones my units were sligthly weaker than lower levels,but this have to be proven.On the other side is clear that sometimes the AI cheats,like when their cities are misteriously able to produce 120% more than my cities,of course with same territories,lands and improvements.

It was also bad that the AI knew in advance where oil will surface and where other resources will spot.The human player do not the cristall ball as the AI.

To finish I have to say that into CIV3 the AI cheated always ,a lot and in an hard way,therefore if developers would be able to tune this cheating a bit it would be concretely more challenging.

Gunter

	17-09-2003 17:42									#4
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect That is hard to make. Civ 3 has one of th emost advanced AIs ever, but still it needs the cheats. I prefer a cheating AI before an easy one.

If we don't expect more, then we never get it.

	17-09-2003 19:20									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Verto If we don't expect more, then we never get it.

I would like to talk with developers,please whomever is in direct contact with them,take them here or forward my previous statements to them.

If in Conquests I will see the AI knowing in advance where the oil will spot I will for sure brake my keyboard,and I do not want to change it again.

Gunter

	17-09-2003 21:33									#6
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Well, Firaxis/Atari programmers/developers do visit this forum - This is the main reason why Dan created the Conquests Forum - to give Firaxis/Atari a focal point...so all that I can say is to have patience. If Firaxis/Atari are so inclined to comment on a thead in this forum, rest assured they will.

	18-09-2003 00:10									#7
	Re: AI cheating : please remove this issue in Conquests Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Gunter Several times in CIVIII AI attacked me into ancient times ( where there were no spies ) always in the only city where I had for a moment no defense units. This is not luck,bacause the AI every time have choosen the only city " empty " choosing among dozens city. Please make it real Gunter

Where's the cheating? I don't see it. If you've got a city that has no military units in it at all, it's like sort of obvious. If I'm within sight-range of an enemy city and the unit I'm seeing on it is a worker or a catapult or I'm just not seeing any units at all, it doesn't take a spy telling me whats there or not there to say "Hello my newest city. Watch me march right in and take you."

I just don't see what's cheating about the AI being "smart" enough to recognize a vulnerable city from info freely available on the map.

And if that city happens to be a central one nowhere near a frontier, I have no sympathy at all. For such a city to be attacked and taken, you pretty much had to have let them do it by completely ignoring the presence of their units in your territory and allowing them to get close to the vulnerable city.

I've lost cities before by allowing them to remain undefended, and I've never blamed anyone but myself for it.

	18-09-2003 03:02									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Gunter Several times have also happened that I had the impression that moving from lower level to higher ones my units were sligthly weaker than lower levels,but this have to be proven.On the other side is clear that sometimes the AI cheats,like when their cities are misteriously able to produce 120% more than my cities,of course with same territories,lands and improvements.

The combat values don't change between difficulties.

It is well documented that the the AI gets economic bonuses at the higher difficuty levels. You can see exactly what is going on here in the editor.

	18-09-2003 08:19									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I like the 'cheating' AI. Without their supreme physic powers, the game would be too easy.

	18-09-2003 10:48									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

You should expect the AI to cheat on harder levels. It's not as if they make a stupid AI for the lower levels and a smart one for hard levels.

Most of the AI cheating is fine by me, but once you notice some of the more annoying habits, it gets on your nerves.

	18-09-2003 16:24									#11
	Re: Re: AI cheating : please remove this issue in Conquests Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Bleyn Where's the cheating? I don't see it. If you've got a city that has no military units in it at all, it's like sort of obvious. If I'm within sight-range of an enemy city and the unit I'm seeing on it is a worker or a catapult or I'm just not seeing any units at all, it doesn't take a spy telling me whats there or not there to say "Hello my newest city. Watch me march right in and take you." I just don't see what's cheating about the AI being "smart" enough to recognize a vulnerable city from info freely available on the map. And if that city happens to be a central one nowhere near a frontier, I have no sympathy at all. For such a city to be attacked and taken, you pretty much had to have let them do it by completely ignoring the presence of their units in your territory and allowing them to get close to the vulnerable city. I've lost cities before by allowing them to remain undefended, and I've never blamed anyone but myself for it.

I do not see any units above my cities,and even if I had turned this option on I wouldn't see how many ones and which ones.

Assuming that I find wrong to see if a city is full or empty,correct ?

Gunter

	18-09-2003 18:06									#12
	Remove this text

You can use espionage to find this out (not that the AI does, like you said, it knows this)

	18-09-2003 20:57									#13
	communications cheat Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This is the “cheat” that most annoys me and I would like to see change:

The AI’s ability to assess the value of communications with civs it has “no knowledge of”. In otherwords, if the AI were truly in the dark about the world, which it clearly isn’t, all communication trades with it should be a simple one for one transaction – as far as its concerned gaining knowledge of one civ should be as good as gaining knowledge of another. How does it know differently? But the AI obviously values civs further along the tech tree more, and may also value civs that have access to more communications to trade more. This means you will never be able be able to trade communications of a small backward civ on island with no other communications but you, with an advanced one in the middle of its continent.

For some reason this bugs me to no end. If I have to guess which communication will do me the most good, it should to.

	18-09-2003 22:48									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

You can check how much the AI wants for each communication and thus find out which are the best ones to have

	20-09-2003 17:51									#15
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Nowadays the AI is more Artifficual than Intelligent, so they need some kind of advantage to make the higher levels more challenging. I have nothing against bonuses in the higher levels. They serve has a handicap and make the game more challenging. But I am completely against what could be considered "unfair" cheats, like knowing where the resources will be, or which "unknown" civilization is more valuable. At least if they are going to cheat they should make a complete list of the cheats the AI does, because otherwise it's very difficult to build your strategy. Of course, people who plays the game a lot and visit forums eventually know about those cheats and can use them to build their strategies, but the ocasional player has it much more difficult.

	20-09-2003 19:23									#16
	Re: Re: Re: AI cheating : please remove this issue in Conquests Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Gunter I do not see any units above my cities,and even if I had turned this option on I wouldn't see how many ones and which ones. Assuming that I find wrong to see if a city is full or empty,correct ? Gunter

ah.. i think i'm getting your point:
try going to the preferences window (CTRL-P iirc) and set the option "show units over cities" ON.
you'll always see the active unit or -if none of those are active- the one with the highest successful defence probability (basicly the one who'll defend if the city gets attacked).

however, gunter, the AI knows if a city is well defended or not. if you see him coming towards a city of yours and you place 20MIs inside, he's bound to look for another city to attack.
not really fair, but hey... there are people who still can beat the computer on deity levels nearly every single turn...

	20-09-2003 22:23									#17
	Re: AI cheating : please remove this issue in Conquests Increase Your PM Length

Personally, I find the AI is so mindlessly predicatable in going after underdefended cities almost regardless of number of turns away and nearby units in positions to block it that I beat the AI more throughally because of this feature than I would if the AI didn't know about it.

quote: Originally posted by Gunter Several times in CIVIII AI attacked me into ancient times ( where there were no spies ) always in the only city where I had for a moment no defense units. This is not luck,bacause the AI every time have choosen the only city " empty " choosing among dozens city. Please make it real Gunter

	21-09-2003 01:57									#18
	Inflate your Upload Space

Gunter, in case joncnunn's point isn't clear to you:
Make the AI's omniscience regarding your unit placement an advantage of YOURS.

Remove units from a city, perhaps even putting them in an adjacent (roaded) tile. Now that you have the bait, all you need is a trap. Guide them into a narrow valley (or any grassland/plains area), and slaughter them.

Hopefully the AI won't always fall into this idiocy in Conquests.