17-09-2003 17:15									#1
	Recommendations required - Probe Teams & possible trade pact with pirates Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Read this thread first.

http://www.civgaming.net/forums/sho...10&pagenumber=3

If we pact with the pirates and have a condition they trade us mobility for another tech. Drones can avoid much of the tech jumping I've talked about.

Anyway recommendations on two points.

* Probe teams when are they built, and how many to put in each base. The probe teams will cut into the formers I was planning on building.

* Ideas and discussion needed on pirate pact.

	17-09-2003 19:05									#2
	Got spare money?

I agree we could raise the possibility with the PEACE. Actually they have raised the pact question in one of their emails, so we only need to respond and say that we have discussed a possible trade pact and there are quite some support toward it. Then we ask them what's the current status of their internal discussion and if they will trade mob with us as a pre condition. This way we get the ball back to their court.

I believe they were testing us and trying to find out if we have any committed obligations to the Drones that would prohibit us into a pact with them. So we need to counter them with the same test. And I do believe that the PEACE CC sour relation may really be an act and that they are perhaps in a pact. In other words, just as we are hesitated to enter a pact with them, they will be hesitated to enter a pact with us. We'll see. I'll be surprised if we actually enter a pact in the end.

	17-09-2003 19:53									#3
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spoiler(highlight to read): How's this for an idea? It may be stupid, but the job of the polls is to filter out the stupid ideas. We pact with the pirates and trade "loyalty, applied, and gene splicing" for "mobility and flexibility". We only agree to pact if they enter a tech trading pact agreement. We say we can get ethical calculus off the drones in exchange for gene splicing. We can get the foil chassis to the drones by building a foil-probe and pretending to probe the drone base, but actually turning over control. Pretend to have a diplomatic incident where we drop into truce over probing the drones (only pirates with their pact infiltration will see this). Then change back to pact. We can then explain some later tech trade as a requirement of a deal to prevent the drones flattening us. It's complicated but it means we get flexibility and gene splicing in 2141. We don't really have much to lose by asking them do we? I think the trades like this will be the main thing that keeps us in tech parity with the research factions. Edit: Fortunately, I've managed to wiggle out of the diplomatic responsibilities for the pirates. So it won't be me having to mislead the pirates. Edit: Actually I should probably ask Voltaire whether he's willing to do this before discussion on this subject continues. Edit: Actually we already had a poll and it dealt with this kind of situation. Pacting would be one thing, underhandedly giving flexibility to the drones would be a breach of the honour decision we made a month or more back. Although they said 10 years we're not allowed to trade flexibility. I suspect that the drones wouldn't want to wait that long before sending out probe ships.

Anyway scrap this idea it doesn't work on a few levels.

	17-09-2003 20:18									#4
	Put an end to popups!

Still trying to understand your proposal. Are you saying that we give pirates loyalty and ap now and promise them gene splicing when we get it and ask them to give us mob and flex right now?

As for probing the rule says if you do it other than infiltration you must declare vendetta so if you are pretending truce is not enough. If you pretend you are simply doing infiltration it will not be convincing enough. Our land is connected they'll be suspected why we didn't infiltrate earlier but choose to wait for a probe foil.

The way I see the possible pact, is that there is not going to be a pact. If, just if in case we do enter into a pact, they'll have the opportunity to observe our tech trading, but they already know (or suspect) that we are in a relationship with the Drones so we don't lose much. On the other hand, we will be able to observe their relationship with the CC too, which may mean more gains for us.

	17-09-2003 20:22									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I was saying we pretend trying to get infiltration, which is pausiable.

The main issue I thought was the fact we're underhandedly giving the drones foils when the pirates wouldn't want the drones to get that and will probably make us agree not to give anyone flexibility.

If the pirates give us flexibility and mobility in 2140, and drones give us ethical calculus in 2140. Then we finish gene splicing in 2141.

	17-09-2003 20:39									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Kody I was saying we pretend trying to get infiltration, which is pausiable.

Well I was thinking it wan't that plausible.

quote: If you pretend you are simply doing infiltration it will not be convincing enough. Our land is connected they'll be suspected why we didn't infiltrate earlier but choose to wait for a probe foil.

quote: The main issue I thought was the fact we're underhandedly giving the drones foils when the pirates wouldn't want the drones to get that and will probably make us agree not to give anyone flexibility.

I agree. When will we get it if drones and we do it independently from pirates? If it takes us longer than 10 years, then I can see drones not opposing to us getting it first and give it to them 10 years later.

Another thought on pact with peace is that if we enter pact with them maybe we could perhaps use the drones if we need to back out and switch to a treaty later, saying they have threatened us or something. It should be ok as long as we have not treated peace unfairly.

	17-09-2003 21:20									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

I told you guys this " honor" concept would be our undoing

If we can get away with it, I think it would be fun trick to play on the pirates. It might neccisitate that we give flexibility to the drone a bit late, so as not to arouse suspicion.

Edit: and we hav'nt even written the tech-trade agreement right? Try to engineer some loophole we can use as a stopgap.

	18-09-2003 02:21									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Or we could just cheat them rotten. Tell them we'll give them something in the future, and simply never deliver on our promise... "sorry we forgot again"

-Jam

	18-09-2003 04:51									#9
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I can't wait till we discover 'the will to power'