19-09-2003 08:33									#31
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One thing I want to comment on. There seems to be a belief that GS always knows the odds. The do know the odds of an attack yes, but they don't know the dispostion of our forces. They can not know how many forces we can bring to a certain area. They can by the relative strength indicator estimate our forces. But what these forces consist of they know not. Do they know we have as many riders as we do, maybe, but probably not. They look at themselves as example, they believe we will build more defense than we do. Also as far as there numbers go, they have many defensive units but offensive units with mobility have been rarely seen. do they have more over here than the 10 we see. I think they have at least 8 more, but they would have it as a reactionary force in the north, there dispostion of forces says so. They have pikes set at intervals as trips wires. when we trip them they pounce. Will they try to rush down here to attack. YES, but we either be in a strong defensive position or back in the alamo, with their catapults before that time. This then plays into our hands since then the second force(after the next 7 riders) can swing to the east and put Toledo into check.
This could bring a total of 12 forces in the toledo area. Remember this, we surprised them, when we shot south as quickly as we did. They are not perfect, we ARE at leasst as good as they are at this contest.
Aggie

	19-09-2003 08:42									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Whoa, there's a settler there!! Why doesn't it show in the unit list?

It's a tactic I thought up in the ISDG when we tried to hide a settler from CDG.

They renamed the settler to "Worker"


But it still appears in the civlopedia options at the bottom.

	19-09-2003 08:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen note that the units attacking the GS knights won't retreat... anyway, regardless of my jitters, Aggie hasn't let us down so far

Thank you so much MZ. But we all have accomplished what we did and will go onward together. I too have jitters becasue even though I think we'll be ok, we've all seen the horrible random rolls that happen occasionally. The good news is that over 25 rolls something similar to "average" will come to fruition. Actually with this many attacks we could almost look for patterns. see if all comes out as it should(and i mean every attack within the battle(well over 100). Me and someone thought about this in the original spdg, since we kept mentioning every time we lost or won an attack.
Aggie

	19-09-2003 08:52									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Aggie They are not perfect, we ARE at leasst as good as they are at this contest. Aggie

I think we are better, because we are unpredictable.

Their weakness is that they will always go where the favourable odds take them.


Recall the Vox analysis .....
GS rattled off huge amount of statistics and percentages of chances to win/lose.
They just hunkered down in thier cities and let Vox kill themselves. And then only went offensive when the odds favoured them.

They will do the same here. Defend until we have exhausted our GA, and then start to attack. Possibly with a Inchon or Inchoff manouver.

Our Southern offensive was so effective, because it was so bold and unexpected.

I am convinced... that first stack must go.



PS... afterwards, make sure we use the Fortify all trick. Tell ND as well. It's an exploit, but I bet GS is using it.

	19-09-2003 09:08									#35
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What the hell is the fortify all trick?

I don't want to go into detail over who is better than who. GS is extremely knowledgable and also quite unpredictable, as the Inchon landings proved. We would be wrong to underestimate them but also equally wrong to think they are unbeatable.

Put it this way: GS is like Tiger Woods. He might be the best golfer out there, but he's not unbeatable, you just have to take advantage of his mistakes and play flawlessly yourself. So far, I think we're on the right track.

	19-09-2003 09:24									#36
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fortify all trick is simply clicking 'fortify all' in a stack at the end of a turn. Makes 0 move units to fortify.

	19-09-2003 09:36									#37
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I agree MZ and He. Actually this is the irony of this game and often of life, we (GS and Us) are thinking the same thing. In the end we hope our monsterous number of units can give us a tactical advantage in this threatre that can be turned into overall victory. They hope we try and fail. We do have the advantage of 2 GA's and the real trump card. Lego. They now have 6 ships to send troops over. Three against one is hard to hold off. I see our goals as this. In our GA we need to eliminate the RP cities and a significant amount of the GS offense over here. If we do this we can either plot the unthinkable or play defesnive aganist a GS counter attack. Once we have Pamploma effectively surronded( i mean where we can pillage and cut roads, the RP forces either have to strike out or be attrited due to disbanding because of no money. This next few turns will be decisive. The bad thing about attacking is this, I wanted to spring 40 forces at him at in the south and 12 in the north at once. This tips him off that we have large numbers in the south, though he has to suspect. Basically we are launching this attack with 30 instead of the desired 40 in the south, without the northern diversionary tactic. But we have the advantage of being able to recover as the others come up to the front and if he swings his rapid reaction force south(I am sure this exist), then we have it out of postion and toledo falls almost easily. The big wild card is RP. Do they have offensive units in large enough numbers to strike out from pamploma and force us to keep some units for this possibility. This is where the almost constant troops coming south helps enormously. If they do, they tropops can assist ND in repulsing the atatck. Also we have another advantage Vox didn't have, a tech lead. We get GP next turn. Now as far as the fortify all command , i don't know. HE please enlighten us. I mean I know the command, but you mean we can use it even without moves, hummm...
Aggie

	19-09-2003 10:32									#38
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Fortify All... As Panzer says ...

If you have more than 1 unit stacked, the "Fortify All" option appears when you right click the stack.

Even when every unit has exhausted its moves, you can still "Fortify All'

Note.. it does NOT look like it works, but when the next team opens the save (ie RP) all the units are fortified.

We are using it with the galleys in the ISDG. But it works with land units as well.

I have been using it against Vondrack in the Misfits PBEM as I seiged his capital. But I dont think I used it against Panzer in the GoW#1 PBEM, because Panzer needs all the help he can get.

This is also the reason why I think we will see Fortified GS Pikes on that hill. I am pretty sure they will use it.

I dont think it is widely known, because the ISDG guys dont want the other teams to know about it.
Plus.....its an exploit

	19-09-2003 17:15									#39
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I don't see what all the discussion is about. Its obvious our best action is to commit to that stack. Its the best opportunity we will have to capture the Catapults, we get two workers for the Settler as opposed to squat for autorazing a size 1 city and it makes them concentrate all their attention in the fight in the desert.

Thus giving our Toledo assault force a better shot at succeeding in the east.

Second, they have no idea how many units we have or had. Even after our turn they will only see what we have left and can assume we got lucky or they may not see the Ansars depending on exactly what units they have left to view with.

	19-09-2003 22:39									#40
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Hmm... I always used Fortify All not knowing that was an exploit...

	20-09-2003 07:15									#41
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I resign as CoW. I do not support actions like the chat tonight where members wanted to take an action then changed their mind when they found the opposite worked. You should make a decision and stick with it for good or ill. Changing your actions based on the results afterwards is not in keeping with the spirit of the game.

Not that it makes any difference since Panzer and MasterZen had overriding authority over me for unit moves in the chat..............

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 20-09-2003 at 07:26

	20-09-2003 19:39									#42
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I guess we need a new CoW then

Anyone up for it?

	20-09-2003 21:55									#43
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If I had $10 for every tantrum GF ever made I'd be rich.

For everyone else's information there was no changing minds of the sort that GF is implying. Some of us merely suggested different ideas and obviously changed our minds when a better idea came out. What's the use of sticking to an idea which is clearly inferior to another one, it's silly if you ask me, and only represents arrogance in trying to get what you want done instead of getting done what is best for the team as a whole.

Being that the most important thing right now is the war itself, I propose some sort of "Joint Chiefs of Staff" with Aggie having the final word on things. All of us active members should therefore suggest plans and together decide on which is the best one.

	20-09-2003 23:17									#44
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I can do it after October. I am going to be completely removed from the internet in a few weeks until then.

	21-09-2003 04:22									#45
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Turn Report 260
WF Changes
Imperial City 2,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,16,20
Camp Concord 2,3,4,13,14,15,16
Ningpo 5,20
Tralfalgar 1,3,4,5,11,19,20

Troops
7 more riders move to nw of lowenmut
5 Riders upgraded in "The Hill"
2 Riders upgraded in Macao
1Rider more moves into "the Alamo", which I forgot to rename yet again.
Sir Ennet moves se,ne,w to do recon
Total Remaining in "The Alamo" is 9Riders and 1Spear
Now for attack(these are not counted in those at The Alamo)
Sir Aromus(5/5) attacks 2/4 Pikes and loses, Pike is left at 1/5
Sir Aggar(5/5) attcaks pike and wins with 2/5, retreats nw
Sir Unorthodox(5/5) attacks 1/4 knights and winds with 3/5 left,retreats nw
Sir Bob(4/4) attacks 1/4 knights and loses, knights to 2/5
Sir Panzer(4) attacks and wins and gets promoted, now at 4/5
Captured workers and catapults moves w to be taken by nd forces.
Toledo diversionary force gathers and moves together to 3NW of mavdad

Workers
Republic worker5,Skulgaria worker, and Moses move w,sw,sw
Isolation worker and Dreadnaughtia worker irrigate
Republic Worker 1 roads

Note: I rushed barracks in "the alamo" and also a barracks in Merida(I have a sinking fear I rushed the spear and forgot to change to barracks). Merida will be gifted to ND next turn, that is why they donated the money to make barracks.

Aggie

	21-09-2003 06:00									#46
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well if you rushed the spear then we will get an extra spear in our capital!