18-09-2003 01:03									#1
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Can some one tell me what sort of Maths I need to help me out with economics? And better still, some websites that have free maths excersises and help etc??


Ty

	18-09-2003 01:07									#2
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What do you want? For a BA degree you will need introductory claculus or business calculus, as well as a lower-level statistics course. For a BS degree you will need an upper-level stats course and up to Calculus II. You probably won't need Calculus though until you reach the intermediate level..

If you are talking about maths for grad school, you need a lot more...

	18-09-2003 01:11									#3
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well, i am reading through an econ text book, for first year degree i beleive. Though I am not actually doing it myself, though i may when i have finished the degree i am on now, I just want to know in general what i should look into

	18-09-2003 01:43									#4
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Ouch. The Maths is idiotic in Economics.

	18-09-2003 02:08									#5
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When I started paying attention this, "Aberystwyth", is what busted you.

	18-09-2003 02:34									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Ouch. The Maths is idiotic in Economics.

thats ok, but i'd still like to know what i am aiming to learn

and any websites that have free excersises....

	18-09-2003 03:26									#7
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Don't you have a Maths for economists course? This should teach you what you need to know. We use all kinds of material, but most of it is calculus. However, the subset of calculus that we use is quite specialised, hence the need for a course.

	18-09-2003 03:57									#8
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quote: Originally posted by The Andy-Man thats ok, but i'd still like to know what i am aiming to learn and any websites that have free excersises....

I take it you've already conquered Homeric Greek and billards? Youre a quick learner!

	18-09-2003 04:05									#9
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It's probably not the maths per se that will be the problems early on. It's the new way of thinking that's necissary for economics. It's a lot like '1984' in a way.

	18-09-2003 05:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Don't you have a Maths for economists course? This should teach you what you need to know. We use all kinds of material, but most of it is calculus. However, the subset of calculus that we use is quite specialised, hence the need for a course.

cough, bullshit, cough.

There is math for econmists at an undergrad which is watered down. not quite math for poets...but not math for MechE's either.

At the grad level, there can be some hairy stuff if you get into social sicience modeling or into finance.

	18-09-2003 08:40									#11
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How much math you need depends on how far you want to go. Unless you want a PhD, you should be able to get by with a good understanding of differential calculus and constrained maximization, plus a little bit of linear algebra and some differential equations if you want to learn about growth.

As far as websites, check out the course pages at some good universities. They often have lecture notes, problem sets, and answers.

U WISCONSIN COURSE PAGES
ANOTHER SITE
The New School for Social Research (AKA "New School") also has a really excellent set of micro and macro notes using calculus, but I dont have that URL right now.

	18-09-2003 14:22									#12
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quote: Originally posted by TCO cough, bullshit, cough. There is math for econmists at an undergrad which is watered down. not quite math for poets...but not math for MechE's either. At the grad level, there can be some hairy stuff if you get into social sicience modeling or into finance.

That's what I said............attend the undergrad course.

	18-09-2003 18:14									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike That's what I said............attend the undergrad course.

The bullshit was about specialized calculus driving the need for an "econ-math" course.

I think it is more related to level of knowledge. You need more math than an English major but less than a physical scientist.

I have a math for econ book as part of my MBA. It was really shockingly easy. It was there for the English majors who freaked when they saw a teensy amount of calculus mixed into the elasticity discussions and such. And a lot of the book had not even calculus but referesher grade school math.

(All that aside, when I tutored MBA students for our corporate class, I found that I could explain micro 101 withouth calculus, you can switch most of the explanations to an algebraic or at least a visual calculus (slope of curve) basis. Much better to keep the English-major weenies thinking about the key concepts and insights than to bog them down with a derivation. (OF course, it almost kills the physicists, when I use algebra (for instance delta x/delta y instead of differentials). They go crazy a little.

	18-09-2003 18:20									#14
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quote: Originally posted by TCO cough, bullshit, cough. There is math for econmists at an undergrad which is watered down. not quite math for poets...

I wont bother with my question about why economists would need to know anything about calculus (kinda like immunologists )

	18-09-2003 18:36									#15
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quote: Originally posted by TCO The bullshit was about specialized calculus driving the need for an "econ-math" course. I think it is more related to level of knowledge. You need more math than an English major but less than a physical scientist. I have a math for econ book as part of my MBA. It was really shockingly easy. It was there for the English majors who freaked when they saw a teensy amount of calculus mixed into the elasticity discussions and such. And a lot of the book had not even calculus but referesher grade school math. (All that aside, when I tutored MBA students for our corporate class, I found that I could explain micro 101 withouth calculus, you can switch most of the explanations to an algebraic or at least a visual calculus (slope of curve) basis. Much better to keep the English-major weenies thinking about the key concepts and insights than to bog them down with a derivation. (OF course, it almost kills the physicists, when I use algebra (for instance delta x/delta y instead of differentials). They go crazy a little.

Ok. I agree with some of that; I don't teach the maths until it is needed, which is after the concepts have been kicked around for a year or so. My point though, was that the subset of maths used in economics is rather peculiar. This is even true of the subset of calculus used, though this might not be apparent to you. Hence, maths transplanted from elsewhere can easily be misleading or just not that useful.

I am not *cough* bullshitting *cough*, that is just my opinion from actual experience of teaching economists.

	18-09-2003 19:21									#16
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For undergrad level courses in the US, the problem is related to general weakness. Not to specific things like stat peculiarities and such. The average physicist kiskcs ass on the math in an econ course. The average econ major finds it tough.

	18-09-2003 19:35									#17
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I'm two years through a three years Economics course and any time Maths comes up I'm just like "what is the ****ing point of this". Can anyone explain why it is useful..at all!?

	18-09-2003 19:38									#18
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Have another beer. Your territory is waiting for you.

	18-09-2003 19:49									#19
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It seems a pointless waste of time.

	18-09-2003 22:49									#20
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever I take it you've already conquered Homeric Greek and billards? Youre a quick learner!

Billiards and greek are just hobbies


As to every one else. I am not doing it at uni or anything, i am teaching myself, hence the need for the specific kind of maths i will need. The general thing here seems to be calculs, but if someone could be very incredibley specific please...

thnx for the help so far though!

	18-09-2003 22:55									#21
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Is "Introductory Mathematical Economics" by Hands still around? My copy is somewhat old, but I found it to be a very good introduction to the math techniques used in economics with lots of applied examples.

	18-09-2003 23:01									#22
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amazon.co.uk stil;l has it listed, but as a delivery from 4-6weeks thing.

	18-09-2003 23:01									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue It seems a pointless waste of time.

Beer is never a pointless waste of time.

	18-09-2003 23:08									#24
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Tbh if you are teaching yourself the basics you only need to be able to do basic linear algebra and maybe basic calculus like partial differentiation.

	18-09-2003 23:10									#25
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If you want more a good book that does everything an undergrad would need from the ground up is Sydsaeter and Hammond's "Mathematics for Economic Analysis"

	18-09-2003 23:11									#26
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and for after the basics? (I like to be thorough )

If i told people i am going through John Sloman's 'Economics' 5th edition, would that help you give me some general advice?

	18-09-2003 23:11									#27
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i missed your second post DrSpike. ty

	19-09-2003 00:22									#28
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Shi, says you, you only enjoyed your first point at the meeting.