18-09-2003 02:39									#1
	No Scripting!? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This is from a Firaxis team members post in another thread, and I think it needs discussion:

quote: Greetings, Here are a few clarifications for you... Sadly, I can confirm that there will not be any form of scripting language or trigger mechanisms in the editor. The engine which we used to create Civ3 and it's expansions is somewhat inflexible in this regard. We are aware of the issue and we will definitely keep such things in mind for any future Civ projects. Sidenote: The arrival of the Portuguese is in-fact a tech advancement as a result of this. Correct, King (Daimyo) units in Sengoku can be upgraded. Correct, I did not have any previous experience as a scenario/mod creator before creating Sengoku. The experience was definitely an eye-opener! Yes, I'll admit "Professionally-designed" does equal paid designer... ...but know that I originally designed the Sengoku Conquest thinking that I would post it as a free download for the public (as a pet project of mine). Since that time, we have introduced a *LOT* of new features (in the main game and editor) which allows us to really create some great new "civ-experiences". I think that we (BreakAway and Firaxis) have really pushed the Civ editor and engine to new heights with this latest installment of the Civ franchise, and I remain absolutely convinced that you guys will be creating tons of great, new mods once this latest version of the editor has been made public. enjoy, Michael

The fact that there is no scripting language changes my whole opinion of Conquests. It seems like there will be no option to add time triggers, unit generation, diplomacy changes, etc. How can scenarios be created like this?

The worst part is:

quote: The engine which we used to create Civ3 and it's expansions is somewhat inflexible in this regard.

Why on earth did they use the engine then? CIV II had scripting, did they give no thought to scenario creation when they started on CIV III?

-MattH, pretty right now.

[edit:] Maybe someone can clarify how scenario creation will work?

	18-09-2003 04:41									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Maybe someone can clarify how scenario creation will work?

hmmm i'm not a beta tester so this is all conjecture but

*create a map
*place cities and tile improvement
*place units
*set technology
*set gold
*set culture for each city (maybe this one is iffy)
*set diplomacy
*set victory conditions
*make any final changes to the rules

simple as that i'd say

	18-09-2003 05:45									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Good questions...

New features such as locked alliances (combined with AI motivators - think tech/unit values and other dependencies) may go a long way towards simulating some of the scripted events that you are hoping for.

The use of the "Locked Alliances" feature in a WW2 scenario, for example, ensures that all Axis-nations will never stray from their war with the Allied nations.

While you won't see the same events occur the exact same way over-and-over again in every game session that you play... (which is one of civ's strengths, in my opinion), you will experience more consistent AI behavior.

Options like these, coupled with new unit abilities and other features should provide scenario creators with plenty of new opportunities to generate some *really* interesting game-mechanics.

Hindsight being 20/20 we certainly would have liked to implement scripting into the CivIII engine, but know that we are doing what we can with this expansion in order to address these concerns regarding scripting.

I hope this helps answer your question...

	18-09-2003 06:03									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks for the fast reply!
Is there any chance that we can get an editor preview or screen shots? It would be time consuming to list thousands of questions for you to answer here .

But for now: can (fixed) alliaces be broken with certain techs? Can units/resources/terrain be placed or changed at certain times?

	18-09-2003 07:56									#5
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by MattH Thanks for the fast reply! Is there any chance that we can get an editor preview or screen shots? It would be time consuming to list thousands of questions for you to answer here . But for now: can (fixed) alliaces be broken with certain techs? Can units/resources/terrain be placed or changed at certain times?

MattH -

Not a problem...

For my next civ3.com website update I will do my best to get some editor screenshots posted for you.

I'll also try to get more info on those other questions as well... worst case scenario (everyone is pretty busy trying to finalize the game in testing, etc.) those questions/answers would make a great addition to our FAQ page.

-Michael

	18-09-2003 08:29									#6
	Tired of ads?

The editor will be a major factor in whether or not I decide to purchase this expansion. Some screenshots of the editor would be great

Will we have the ability to add new terrains with the new editor?

	19-09-2003 06:27									#7
	Suffering from ads?

The best working example I can think of (off the top of my head) as to why events are Sooo important for Scenarios was the Civ2 Revolutionary War Scenario. In that game, the event script allowed the British to recieve Hessian mercenaries every x turns-something that is just impossible if this scenario were made for Civ3!!!
In addition, how about a WWII scenario which begins with the Germans allied to the Soviets but where, within a few turns of the game, you want them to declare war on them!! Again, if I understand things correctly, it's just NOT do-able with the current (or future) Civ3 Editor!
Though Scenarios are not supposed to be a total "Recreation" of historical events, events allowed for historical events which occured outside of the player(s) control! It also even allowed for a-historical events to occur, as a result of the player 'changing' history!!
So Firaxis, please tell us that there is SOME way that the Civ3 engine can be made flexible enough to accept even a very SIMPLE Events Script!!!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

	19-09-2003 16:38									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker The best working example I can think of (off the top of my head) as to why events are Sooo important for Scenarios was the Civ2 Revolutionary War Scenario. In that game, the event script allowed the British to recieve Hessian mercenaries every x turns-something that is just impossible if this scenario were made for Civ3!!!

Not quite true. Assuming everything is available in the editor, you will be able to use the functionality of the "Temple of Zeus" wonder to mod something that will grant a particular unit every X number of turns. So create it, give it to the British, and there you go.

	19-09-2003 19:10									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Stuie Not quite true. Assuming everything is available in the editor, you will be able to use the functionality of the "Temple of Zeus" wonder to mod something that will grant a particular unit every X number of turns. So create it, give it to the British, and there you go.

If it is in the editor, which I hope. But we will just have to wait and see.

	19-09-2003 19:35									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Don't get your hopes too high, last I checked the editor was extremely buggy still.

	19-09-2003 23:29									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Don't get your hopes too high, last I checked the editor was extremely buggy still.

No sweat, Wormtongue. Either the game release will be delayed (BOOOOO!!) or we will have plenty of time learning how to use it while waiting for the patches.

There will still be plenty of new things to use and explore while we wait. Deadlines is what makes a game company - on with the Death March!

Death March, the beat of the gaming industry

	20-09-2003 00:09									#12
	Got spare money?

I'm ready for them to get a scriptable base started for Civ4 already. Let's learn from the mistakes and make a better more versatile game.

With out bugs.

	20-09-2003 22:30									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It would be incorrect historically to classify Germany and USSR as allies during the first part of WW II. They merely had a formal understanding over which section of Poleland would go to Germany, and which section to the USSR, combined with a Non Agressive Treaty.

For that matter, neither the USSR nor Japan attacked each other during WW II until August of 45. (Months after the defeat of Germany and only a few weeks before Japan surrendered.)

	21-09-2003 14:12									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Not quite true. Assuming everything is available in the editor, you will be able to use the functionality of the "Temple of Zeus" wonder to mod something that will grant a particular unit every X number of turns. So create it, give it to the British, and there you go.

What if the Americans capture the city, and thus the wonder? Then they would suddenly be getting units they shouldn't be getting. Or could it be made a small wonder that is automatically destroyed when a city is taken.

	21-09-2003 15:53									#15
	Remove this text

I hope they have taken away the line between great and small wonders for C3C so that you can make them work in the exactly same way. (I think I've heard someting on it, but Ican't remember wether it was positive or negative)