Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Forget carbon: Argon plasma life
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!

bottom of page
  
Author
Thread    < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 03:23
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Forget carbon: Argon plasma life Put an end to popups!

Well, *life* is a bit of a stretch but this is still cool. If these can be stabilised for long periods of time and a form of hereditary material found (excited electron states passed along by EM radiation perhaps?) we may have to rethink where extrasolar life might life and what it could be like.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994174
Plasma blobs hint at new form of life


19:00 17 September 03

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.

Physicists have created blobs of gaseous plasma that can grow, replicate and communicate - fulfilling most of the traditional requirements for biological cells. Without inherited material they cannot be described as alive, but the researchers believe these curious spheres may offer a radical new explanation for how life began.

Most biologists think living cells arose out of a complex and lengthy evolution of chemicals that took millions of years, beginning with simple molecules through amino acids, primitive proteins and finally forming an organised structure. But if Mircea Sanduloviciu and his colleagues at Cuza University in Romania are right, the theory may have to be completely revised. They say cell-like self-organisation can occur in a few microseconds.

The researchers studied environmental conditions similar to those that existed on the Earth before life began, when the planet was enveloped in electric storms that caused ionised gases called plasmas to form in the atmosphere.

They inserted two electrodes into a chamber containing a low-temperature plasma of argon - a gas in which some of the atoms have been split into electrons and charged ions. They applied a high voltage to the electrodes, producing an arc of energy that flew across the gap between them, like a miniature lightning strike.

Sanduloviciu says this electric spark caused a high concentration of ions and electrons to accumulate at the positively charged electrode, which spontaneously formed spheres (Chaos, Solitons & Fractals, vol 18, p 335). Each sphere had a boundary made up of two layers - an outer layer of negatively charged electrons and an inner layer of positively charged ions.

Trapped inside the boundary was an inner nucleus of gas atoms. The amount of energy in the initial spark governed their size and lifespan. Sanduloviciu grew spheres from a few micrometres up to three centimetres in diameter.

A distinct boundary layer that confines and separates an object from its environment is one of the four main criteria generally used to define living cells. Sanduloviciu decided to find out if his cells met the other criteria: the ability to replicate, to communicate information, and to metabolise and grow.

He found that the spheres could replicate by splitting into two. Under the right conditions they also got bigger, taking up neutral argon atoms and splitting them into ions and electrons to replenish their boundary layers.

Finally, they could communicate information by emitting electromagnetic energy, making the atoms within other spheres vibrate at a particular frequency. The spheres are not the only self-organising systems to meet all of these requirements. But they are the first gaseous "cells".

Sanduloviciu even thinks they could have been the first cells on Earth, arising within electric storms. "The emergence of such spheres seems likely to be a prerequisite for biochemical evolution," he says.

That view is "stretching the realms of possibility," says Gregoire Nicolis, a physical chemist at the University of Brussels. In particular, he doubts that biomolecules such as DNA could emerge at the temperatures at which the plasma balls exist.

However, Sanduloviciu insists that although the spheres require high temperature to form, they can survive at lower temperatures. "That would be the sort of environment in which normal biochemical interactions occur."

But perhaps the most intriguing implications of Sanduloviciu's work are for life on other planets. "The cell-like spheres we describe could be at the origin of other forms of life we have not yet considered," he says. Which means our search for extraterrestrial life may need a drastic re-think. There could be life out there, but not as we know it.

Lorizael is offline Lorizael

Prince
The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 03:30
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Whoa. That's really cool.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 03:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510054502,00.html

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 03:42
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Bullsh1t

It falls down in the first sentence, is it nessarcery to 'communicate' to be alive? and whats 'most'?

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 03:54
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I can't imagine something alive that doesn't communicate in some way or another... well I mean something alive on our planet

Curiosity is offline Curiosity
Warlord

Jan 2003
time: 05:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 04:24
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sounds more like ball lightning.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 04:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by reds4ever
Bullsh1t

It falls down in the first sentence, is it nessarcery to 'communicate' to be alive? and whats 'most'?


Communicate at least at the chemical level of interacting with environmental cues, yes.

Tuberski is offline Tuberski
Emperor
ACK!!! PTHBBPPPTTT!!!!
Feb 2002
time: 23:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 05:06 Visit Tuberski's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by TCO
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510054502,00.html


How did he take second place with this theng at a national science fair?

What took first? A home cloning kit?

ACK!

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 05:39
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've been looking at the idea of making homebuilt particle colliders for when Ian gets older.

I wouldn't call that a fusion reactor though - neutron generator is more like it, although it is a cool thing for the kid to have built.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 05:42
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So are the Argonians going to eat my brains?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
Apolyton Grand Executioner
mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 06:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Uh... I don't think you'll have to worry about that...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 06:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Uh... I don't think you'll have to worry about that...
sure I will, I'll be the first to go because I'm just an h'our dervs... see I can't even spell that French crap right!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 07:47
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

So, are the blobs inside lava lamps alive?

korn469 is offline korn469
King
Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 10:34
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
So, are the blobs inside lava lamps alive?


not only are they alive, they're oppressed by hippies!

where's the marines when you need them?

Rogan Josh is offline Rogan Josh
Prince

Jan 1970
time: 06:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 11:44
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:
Originally posted by TCO
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510054502,00.html


Just how is that supposed to be a fusion reactor? Jeez, I really wish the media would learn some physics.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 19-09-2003 12:48
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I would like to know what that is.

  < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:30.
Apolyton Time is 00:30.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
archivepost
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0380 seconds (90.45% PHP - 9.55% MySQL) with 31 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net