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Caligastia is offline Caligastia
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 03:50
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'Race bias' could free alleged drug dealer Full PM-box? Change here!

'Race bias' could free alleged drug dealer
Judge tosses evidence because police routinely search more minorities

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 18, 2003
5:00 p.m. Eastern



© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

A Massachusetts judge might let a Latino man caught with 2 pounds of cocaine in his car go free today because the state police troopers who arrested him had routinely searched more cars driven by minorities than by whites.

Worcester, Mass., Superior Court Judge John S. McCann threw out the evidence of the cocaine and the man's admission he planned to sell it, the Boston Globe reported.

Excluding evidence because of a statistical pattern suggesting racial bias is extremely rare and could be a "pathbreaking decision," said law professor Samuel R. Gross of the University of Michigan, who has written about racial profiling.

If the ruling is upheld, it could jeopardize similar arrests and force police to monitor their officers' patterns of stops and searches, the paper said.

Charges against Andres Lora of New York City have not been dismissed, but the case is based entirely on the cocaine found in the trunk and his admissions to officers he planned to sell it, the Globe said. The judge will decide today whether to release Lora while an appeal by the Worcester district attorney's office is being heard.

The court records show Lora was a passenger in a car stopped the evening of Dec. 21, 2001, near Worcester by Trooper Brendan Shugrue. The officer said he followed the Pontiac Grand Am because it was in the left lane of Interstate 290, which is illegal in Massachusetts, except to pass or prepare for a left turn.

Shugrue testified he noticed the men in the car were dark-skinned but insisted that was not the reason he pulled them over. The trooper saw a sealed plastic bag on the driver-side floor, near Lora, containing what he thought was cocaine. He called for backup, Trooper William Pinkes, to search the trunk, and they discovered a larger package of cocaine.

The officers said Lora, a 53-year-old Dominican immigrant, admitted he had bought the cocaine in the Bronx for $26,000, and intended to sell it in Worcester for $30,000, the Boston paper reported.

But Lora's attorney, Michael Erlich, obtained copies of all tickets written by Shugrue during a six-month period, and Pinkes for two months, the Globe said. The records showed Shugrue had searched the cars of 5.1 percent of the white motorists he ticketed for moving violations, but 33.2 percent of minorities' cars. Pinkes had searched 1.6 percent of the white motorists, but 69.7 percent of minorities.

The defense also submitted a series of Boston Globe articles indicating the disparity is far above average.

Judge McCann ruled Shugrue properly pulled over the car for violating the left-lane prohibition, but he found the troopers' pattern of traffic stops relevant.

In an unusual appeal to the U.S. Constitution's Equal Protection Clause, McCann said the evidence "leaves no reasonable conclusion but that Shugrue stopped the motor vehicle in which the defendant was a passenger because of the race of the operator and the race of the defendant."

The Protection Clause usually is restricted to civil law, not criminal law.

John Reinstein, legal director for the ACLU of Massachusetts, applauded McCann's ruling, though Erlich acknowledged some people might find it difficult to accept because his client did have 1,000 grams of cocaine in his trunk.

"But the Equal Protection Clause does not focus on what was found, or how much was found, but on the process in which it was found," Erlich said.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=34676

---------------------------------------------------------------

Whatever the methods used to catch this guy, he was caught red-handed. To let him go would surely be irresponsible.

Another thing to consider is that the high percentage of minorities searched by this officer does not necessarily indicate race as the factor in his decision to search. New Jersey officers have been accused of racism because of similar statistics, but the fact is that minority officers in NJ search the same percentage of minorities as white officers. There are other factors to consider.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Is he guilty of the crime? If so, send him down. I don't see the problem here. That is, unless something like entrapment was used.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 04:03
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He's guilty of the crime but the judge doesn't like the cop so the LD Judge is going to let the criminal walk.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 04:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia

Whatever the methods used to catch this guy, he was caught red-handed. To let him go would surely be irresponsible.


House to house warrantless searches of "bad neighborhoods" would undoubtedly catch a lot of *******s, too. If you catch one, nail him, if you search someone's house and they're clean, you can tell 'em to stay that way.

quote:

Another thing to consider is that the high percentage of minorities searched by this officer does not necessarily indicate race as the factor in his decision to search. New Jersey officers have been accused of racism because of similar statistics, but the fact is that minority officers in NJ search the same percentage of minorities as white officers. There are other factors to consider.


I'd always hire white middle class looking people for my criminal ventures. Nobody pays attention to them.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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quote:
Originally posted by elijah
Is he guilty of the crime? If so, send him down. I don't see the problem here. That is, unless something like entrapment was used.


The question is whether there was probable cause (beyond the fact that he's a suspicious lookin' greaser, you know how they are) to search in the first place.

The rationale for letting him go is that if the police get to use evidence whether legally obtained or not (or get to search with impunity when no evidence exists, regardless of the legality of the search), then police have no reason to make sure they have probable cause - they'll get the goods or blow it off either way, so who the hell cares, let's roust these punks.

Kirnwaffen is offline Kirnwaffen
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 04:14
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That's amazing. Legit traffic stop, cocaine in plain view, what's the problem?

Caligastia is offline Caligastia
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


House to house warrantless searches of "bad neighborhoods" would undoubtedly catch a lot of *******s, too. If you catch one, nail him, if you search someone's house and they're clean, you can tell 'em to stay that way.


Ha ha
That's not really what I meant. What I meant to say was - putting aside the issue of whether the cop's methods were fair or not, it would be irresponsible to let a criminal go with out punishment.


quote:

I'd always hire white middle class looking people for my criminal ventures. Nobody pays attention to them.




MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 05:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Caligastia


Ha ha
That's not really what I meant. What I meant to say was - putting aside the issue of whether the cop's methods were fair or not, it would be irresponsible to let a criminal go with out punishment.


I doubt they gave him back the coke. Do you know how much that ******* lost on two ****ing pounds? Let alone if it's not his money and he's working for someone else?

The problem is, if the cops are rewarded when sucessful, and immune when not, there's nothing to deter police forces from carrying out illegal searches at will. Letting the scumbag go isn't a good solution, but it's the only one that takes the reward out of the cop's misbehavior. You don't need a warrant for a motor vehicle search, but you do at least need probable cause, and that's not a very tough standard to meet.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
That's amazing. Legit traffic stop, cocaine in plain view, what's the problem?


Well, the problem is that it wasn't in plain view until the cop searched the trunk.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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you know, you'd think that these drug lords would get the idea: hispanic cars get searched more. so who should be the mules? not hispanics. go hire some asians or something. we're more liable to sell secrets to china than smuggle drugs.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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If you let the cops get away with illegal behavior, they have no reason to stop violating the Constitution. This is pretty elemental stuff, folks.

Kirnwaffen is offline Kirnwaffen
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 06:16
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quote:
Well, the problem is that it wasn't in plain view until the cop searched the trunk.


True, the larger bag was not seen, however:

quote:
The trooper saw a sealed plastic bag on the driver-side floor, near Lora, containing what he thought was cocaine.


Does this not constitute probable cause?

monkspider is offline monkspider
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 06:32
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This is a great first step to help fight the epidemic of racism in our legal system.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 06:35 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Let's see now. There are two problems here:

1. Criminal broke the law. Solution: Punish him.

2. Cop broke the law: Solution: Punish him.

Now where does letting the criminal loose have anything to do with prosecuting the cop for his alleged crime?

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 06:38
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Maybe or maybe not.

Depending on the size of the bag, the court might or might not have found the claim of the bag in the front on the driver's side floor credible.

Was the driver out of the vehicle? Did the cop have enough visibility of the floor to see the bag?

Or were there two bags in the trunk?

You could assume a frootloop judge, but the prosecutor apparently wasn't able to convince the judge of the probable cause, or perhaps the bag in the front wasn't cocaine and didn't convincingly look like cocaine?

Without the court transcripts and details on the exhibits, we can't tell, except the judge who has seen this stuff apparently doesn't buy the story.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 06:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
Let's see now. There are two problems here:

1. Criminal broke the law. Solution: Punish him.

2. Cop broke the law: Solution: Punish him.

Now where does letting the criminal loose have anything to do with prosecuting the cop for his alleged crime?


An unlawful search by a peace officer in violation of the Fourth Amendment is not a crime in any jurisdiction in the US.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Maybe or maybe not.

Depending on the size of the bag, the court might or might not have found the claim of the bag in the front on the driver's side floor credible.

Was the driver out of the vehicle? Did the cop have enough visibility of the floor to see the bag?

Or were there two bags in the trunk?

You could assume a frootloop judge, but the prosecutor apparently wasn't able to convince the judge of the probable cause, or perhaps the bag in the front wasn't cocaine and didn't convincingly look like cocaine?

Without the court transcripts and details on the exhibits, we can't tell, except the judge who has seen this stuff apparently doesn't buy the story.


Which is all precisely why I'll wait to see the details of the case from some other source besides WorldNetDaily.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


An unlawful search by a peace officer in violation of the Fourth Amendment is not a crime in any jurisdiction in the US.


Yeah I know. That is the problem.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Which is all precisely why I'll wait to see the details of the case from some other source besides WorldNetDaily.


They've just repackaged the story from the Boston Globe, who has essentially the same article. That good enough for ya?

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The problem is that it sets the precedent that someone can be prosecuted for a crime even if their civil rights are violated in the process. I'm not sure if the cop should be punished for doing his job, and I'm unsure about what the standard test for racial profiling is. Let's face it too, what people really want is the cop rewarded and the evildoer sent to the slammer.

But, it's more difficult than that. We can't just throw civil rights by the wayside when it fits our ends. Even if it means a bad guy gets off the hook. If behavior like that is rewarded, if civil rights can simply be set aside whenever the court decides it's ok, then there is a true loss of freedom. Not to sound cliche, but if a judge finds that there is a 4th Amendment violation he has to throw out the case. The supreme law of the land is the Constitution, it would be wrong to reward anybody for anything accomplished by breaking that law.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


They've just repackaged the story from the Boston Globe, who has essentially the same article. That good enough for ya?


I don't think Boris will believe it until it comes out on Democrats.com

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
They've just repackaged the story from the Boston Globe, who has essentially the same article. That good enough for ya?


No, I'd actually like to read the BG article, not take your word for it. I'd also like to know more details about the case and exactly how the cops came to stop the guy and find the drugs.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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I really don't think we want to punish violations of 4th Amendment rights unless the behavior is flagrant. If it is, you can get them on a Federal violation of civil rights charge, like they did for the police who battered Rodney King.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
I don't think Boris will believe it until it comes out on Democrats.com


Says the man who won't believe what scientists say because he prefers an Argument from Incredulity.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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  Old Post 20-09-2003 06:55
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Then look the ****ing thing up. I didn't ask you to take my word for it, I just didn't feel like babysitting you with linky-poos I figure you could find all by your self if you really wanted to do something more than whine about the source Cali cited.

Sheeesh.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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I'll note this article in the BG (hey, nice inits!):

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...t_stay_in_jail/

The same judge has ruled the suspect has to remain in jail for now. Note the D.A. hasn't decided whether or not to appeal. That doesn't bode well for how even he views the strength of the case in the face of the questions of how the evidence was obtained.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Then look the ****ing thing up. I didn't ask you to take my word for it, I just didn't feel like babysitting you with linky-poos I figure you could find all by your self if you really wanted to do something more than whine about the source Cali cited.

Sheeesh.


As you can see above, I was looking it up. But the original article isn't there anymore, since it's a week old. So maybe, since you had referenced it, you knew where I could find it, you cranky old coot.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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coot?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Lincoln is offline Lincoln
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I really don't think we want to punish violations of 4th Amendment rights unless the behavior is flagrant. If it is, you can get them on a Federal violation of civil rights charge, like they did for the police who battered Rodney King.


I never could understand the idea of punishing the cop by letting the criminal go free. The Rodney King case is a good example. I think if the cops break the law then they should be prosecuted like any other criminal.

 
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