20-09-2003 08:39									#1
	revolting cities Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i've been trying to get a city to go into revolt and become a new civ, i changed the max number of players as stated in the faq (i put it to 11, and there are six players currently). however though its happiness is down to 60, and it's had that revolt icon for many many turns, it refuses to become independent. what gives?

	20-09-2003 13:29									#2
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What mod are you using happyfresh?

	20-09-2003 23:07									#3
	Remove this text

i'm playing the game unmodded (just the official patch)

	21-09-2003 19:47									#4
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That's odd according to the const.txt should every city under a happiness level of 60 revolt and from a new civilisation. Maybe there is only a chance of some percent that the city revolts like it is with the riot level. So in that case it would be bad luck and you can only play on and see what happens.

-Martin

	22-09-2003 00:47									#5
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that must be it, i had it at 60 but not below, once it fell below it immedeatly formed australia. thanks a lot

	22-09-2003 01:26									#6
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60 is way too low though isnt it by default.

	23-09-2003 00:20									#7
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yea, i thought they would rebel just couple of turns after falling below 73. you have to really be doing something wrong to get it below 60.

	30-09-2003 21:20									#8
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Can you even force a city to GO that low?

	30-09-2003 21:35									#9
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60 seems really low.

	01-10-2003 04:19									#10
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quote: Originally posted by XGX_Stealth Can you even force a city to GO that low?

Max out the sliders on the cost of happiness, don't build happiness buildings, fill the city radius with mines as much as possible for the pollution, and also add as much production buildings as possible, avoid it to controll crime, and no wonders that increase happiness. Well that should be enough to force the happiness down 60. The main messarument is to increase pollution that causes alot of unhappiness.

-Martin

	01-10-2003 05:05									#11
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.... and also go WAY over your city limit for your government, -1 happiness empire-wide for every city over the limit.

	01-10-2003 18:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora .... and also go WAY over your city limit for your government, -1 happiness empire-wide for every city over the limit.

I forgot that, and I recently tought the AI to respect the city cap.

-Martin

	02-10-2003 19:09									#13
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If that fix is a SLIC code, I'd be really interested in seeing a version for Cradle.

	03-10-2003 02:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann ...and I recently tought the AI to respect the city cap. -Martin

The AI civs can always be taught to respect the City cap the hard way, with machineguns and tanks, but anything that fixes our good old CtP2 game is a better thing.

Could you share the solution Martin?

	03-10-2003 20:29									#15
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian If that fix is a SLIC code, I'd be really interested in seeing a version for Cradle.

It is not only a slic code but also. First I needed a way to find out a players current government, in contrast to Dale's sollution that requires adding new units, my sollution just requires adjusting your governments. To be precise the work day food rations and salleries expectations. Everything you have to do is to check the players government and if it is over the cap make shure that the AI player considers a new strategy. Another question Dave does the latest version of Cradle contain a version of my BetterAi.slc. The version I have installed on my computer doesn't, but it wouldn't be such a good idea to use the current public version, as I discovered some serious bugs in it.

Also Peter did a great job in his new scripts a lot of stuff I was going to do, too. I certainly will incorporate his SaveThePlanes.slc as replacement for Dale's airunit.slc. The only question is if I need to change the unit.txt for that to make it work.

But more later.

-Martin

	04-10-2003 02:51									#16
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To solve a problem one must sometimes take a long way round.

Martin, I have included your MG_BetterAI.slc into my SAP2 configuration, do you have a corrected file available?

	04-10-2003 04:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Another question Dave does the latest version of Cradle contain a version of my BetterAi.slc. The version I have installed on my computer doesn't, but it wouldn't be such a good idea to use the current public version, as I discovered some serious bugs in it.

- Cradle 1.35 has v0.93 BetterAI (file dated 09/13/02) I do remember you sending me a bunch of SLIC files that you had updated before I posted 1.35 - these updated files made it into 1.35.

- Cradle 1.34 has an earlier version of BetterAI (file dated 04/26/02)

Actually, I had a slight itch to play a Cradle game

	04-10-2003 13:56									#18
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The version I have included in my SAP2 is the v.0.94

	04-10-2003 22:27									#19
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There two problems and it looks like they are included in your files. On the one hand is the AddUnitToArmy slic event, if I call it within slic code it might produce ghost units, as I described earlier in this forum. You have units but they don't have a health bar and if you try to select them the game crashes. It looks like they aren't contained in an army. Something that could happen if something go wrong with the AddUnitToArmy.

The symptons during a game are repetive crashes on the same turn at the same time. If you load the last savegame and go to the civ with this ghost unit and click on the military manager the game crashes. Then you can check in which city or whereever this unit is, but you should be very careful by selecting the units around it otherwise you select it and the game crashs.

On the other hand there is a problem with the regrouping armies: When I sort them I ungroup them first, that creates new armies you can check this when you use the cheat editor and take a look on the AI army names they are getting higher and higher. On the first hand this is not a problem but the higher the army numbers the slower is the game. It looks like this consumes a lot of memory. Fortunatly it seems that you don't need to ungroup them them first.

So here is my question did you notice such problems I described above?

-Martin

	05-10-2003 01:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann There two problems and it looks like they are included in your files. On the one hand is the AddUnitToArmy slic event, if I call it within slic code it might produce ghost units, as I described earlier in this forum. You have units but they don't have a health bar and if you try to select them the game crashes. It looks like they aren't contained in an army. Something that could happen if something go wrong with the AddUnitToArmy. The symptons during a game are repetive crashes on the same turn at the same time. If you load the last savegame and go to the civ with this ghost unit and click on the military manager the game crashes. Then you can check in which city or whereever this unit is, but you should be very careful by selecting the units around it otherwise you select it and the game crashs.

This sounds exactly like reported problems for Cradle (v1.34-35). Thanks for the verification on a vexing problem.

	05-10-2003 01:41									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann So here is my question did you notice such problems I described above? -Martin

To be honest I have not yet used it as I have not played CtP2 since a few months. I have tweaked some files here and then, I have added several files taken from your GoodMod and I am wondering if the Science costs must not be lowered again to fit my own tastes. But I have not yet played with the BetterAI.slc...

If that can help you I can try to start a game next week and report any problem though I won't have the time to finish the game quickly.

	05-10-2003 19:37									#22
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Tamerlin, I think you can finish a game at least you can play or better let play it long enough. All you have to do is to start a new game, for the Barbarian level you select ruins only. Once you are in the game use the cheat editor and switch to the Barbarians. Then open the chat window and enter: /rnd x

x refers here to a number of turns that you which to run the game without human interfer. Well if you press esc you get the controll back afterwards you closed the options menue.

It is also a good idea to disable the battle screen. the best possibilty to see the effects of the BetterAi.slc is on a map with a lot of land. Also a smaller map with a lot of AIs is good for testing purposes.

-Martin

	09-10-2003 14:13									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Tamerlin, I think you can finish a game at least you can play or better let play it long enough.

Your method is very efficient when you want to test something you have designed and see it if runs properly.

As far as I am concerned I would like to test your files in order to check if they suit my tastes, I thus have to play a full game and evaluate their impact on the game.

	12-10-2003 04:38									#24
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At the time I was foolish enough to say I would test the MG_BetterAI.slc this week I forgot that the Rugby World Cup would start this week-end. I am sorry Martin but I am afraid I won't play with my computer for a while...

	12-10-2003 19:57									#25
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No problem Tamerlin, the lastest version of the MG_BetterAI.slc is not finished anyway. However the new version does require a MG_Functions.slc with functions like MG_GetContinentID. Well actual so far it is only used once in the code, but I hope I find some good more places for it. Or another function is this one MG_GetTransportedUnitsAtLocation. Actual there should the word number somewhere in the name of that function. So far I have not found a place for this function.

-Martin

	13-10-2003 03:19									#26
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Is there a fix for the "ghost" units? If it is possible to fix it by replacing a few lines I can do it in my file if you send me the corrected lines?

	13-10-2003 19:19									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Is there a fix for the "ghost" units? If it is possible to fix it by replacing a few lines I can do it in my file if you send me the corrected lines?

Well I am afraid that I have some difficuilties to find the "corrected lines". Especilly if I consider that I just disabled the problemetic code and replaced it by new code. The result is now a MG_Fuctions.slc with 1420 lines including comments and the file isn't finished, yet. And maybe 200 to 300 new lines for the MG_BetterAI.slc. But I would like to release it when it is finished or I ran out of time.

Well to fix your version:

Search for lines like:

Event:UngroupOrder(MGArmy);

And comment them out or delete them.

And then find these lines:

Event:AddUnitToArmy(MGUnit, MGArmy2, j);

The AddUnitToArmy event has to be replaced by the GroupUnitOrder event. Of course you have to make shure that you use the right variable names:

Event:GroupUnitOrder(MGArmy, MGUnit);

-Martin

	13-10-2003 20:33									#28
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Thanks Martin...