 |
| |
|
|
JohnT
|
 |
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:31
|
|
A simple enough question, just absolutely fraught with implications, this thread is for those of you with no children. Assuming that you have at least one child, what do you expect out of parenthood?
If you're gay, answer this question assuming that you will be able to adopt a child. In 1987 the ABA estimated that there were 6 million kids of gay, lesbian, or bisexual parents in the USA. I think that sounds rather high, but gay parents are becoming more common.
One (well, two) assumptions:
1. A willing partner. For this thread, I don't care if you seemingly average 1 date every 6 years. Assume that you have found somebody willing to bear your children/co-adopt.
2. A "planned" child. I.e., you decided to have a kid, got off the pill, and viola - 18 months later out pops Jr.
Here are some things to think about...
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant?
2. What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother?
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father?
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have (do you want your kid to be bookish? Atheletic? Casual or high achiever? Male or female?) Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy (animals, physics, math, ballet, music, whatever?)
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent?
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment, TV time, schooling (home? public? private?), sex ed., etc.?
Please note that I'm asking for the ideal answer more than the most likely: i.e., if you prefer for one spouse to stay at home, even though you think that will be unlikely given your current situation, say so.
Oh, and be honest: if you want a boy more than a girl (or a brain more than a jock), there's nothing wrong in saying so. Wimpy "I don't care as long as it's healthy" answers will result in the wimp receiving a well-deserved raspberry.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
GePap
|
 |
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:31
|
|
Damn man, too many questions! I was just going to say cheap factory labor, but your serious post just riuns the fun!
Well, to forge ahead:
1. To me the legal status of the relation is irrelevant..how solid carring and mature it is is the key.
2. To treat my child fairly, create good boundaries, give them a good grounding so they will be able to make reasoned choices when their time comes, and to love them unconditionally, but not spoil them.
3. Ditto..and good to look at for Daddy.
4. Intelligent, enthusiastic, artistic.
5. I plan to work, and if my wife does to, her decision. But time for the child is vital, so no jobs that would greatly interfere with a good relation.
6. The kids gets to watch as much TV as they want, as long as what they must do otherwise is done. I will use corporal punishment rarely. I will be honest with my kids, when I feel they have te cognative ability to undersdtand an issue. For example, when my kid asks about sex, I will tell them it is a physical act ,mean tboth for pleasure and procriation (though not use that word), that it can be both pleasurable and painfull, and that she is NOt ready for it, and her/his life will be better to wait, and ask me again later! as for sex ed, go ahead.. I don;t want my kid getting VD. As for school, whatever is best without breaking the bank.
7. I want one of each, and they will be bilingual at least, if not trilingual when they leave my house!
|
|
| |
|
|
|
St Leo
|
 |
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:31
|
|
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant?
Ideally outside, but I am open-minded.
2. What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother?
Not wondering why on Earth I was driven to have the little satans and blowing my brains out.
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father?
Bare-bottom spanking. Oh, wait, you are talking about the kids. No bare-bottom spanking for them.
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have (do you want your kid to be bookish? Atheletic? Casual or high achiever? Male or female?) Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy (animals, physics, math, ballet, music, whatever?)
Geek. Math, science, and computers.
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent?
o_0
Two earners.
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment, TV time, schooling (home? public? private?), sex ed., etc.?
Symbolic and preferably verbal. Ideally none. Public. Before puberty. Etc.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Rufus T. Firefly
|
 |
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:31
|
|
edit: I missed the part about this being for posters with no children. Sorry! 
Interesting questions, John.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant? |
I would say no, but I suspect that depends on the community in which you are raising the child. My wife and I are both professors, so we have a lot of progressive/alternative friends, including gay couples raising children; our daughter was raised with the sense that marriage (and, indeed, heterosexuality) was just one item of many on the menu. Of course, had we lived in the suburbs, or the Bible Belt, instead of in an academic ghetto in a northern city, we might have felt differently.
quote:
2. What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother? |
To do it better than my parents did, for one thing. To actually know my child, to understand her, to accept her for who she is and becomes, to let her be honest about her life with me and to be honest about my life with her. But more than anything, to be absolutely steadfast and reliable, there for her in all ways at all times.[/quote]
quote:
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father? |
The exact same thing. People who know us occasionally marvel that my wife and I have made it this far, because we seem so different -- our politics, our taste in books/movies/art, our very personalities -- but we have never, ever disagreed about how to be married to each other our how to raise our kid. To us, that's all that matters; the rest just keeps things interesting.
quote:
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have (do you want your kid to be bookish? Atheletic? Casual or high achiever? Male or female?) Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy (animals, physics, math, ballet, music, whatever?) |
I prefer girls to boys -- as lovers, as friends, and as offspring. I would want any of my kids to be high achievers, because I would want them to always maximize their potential. As to how they achieve: I'd prefer it to be brains, since that's how my wife and I have done it; I'd be much more accepting of a jock daughter than a jock son. I would want them to find their own interests (and teach me about them!), but it is nice than my daughter shares my passion for film.
quote:
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent? |
We've always been a two-earner family, and it's been good for my daughter: she's grown up with a sense that women do much more than just take care of the home, as well as with teh sense that men also clean, cook, and take care of the kids. Plus, I'm a big fan of daycare; I know kids who've gone to daycare at a young age, and others who've stayed at home with a parent -- and by age 5 the former group is inevitably more socially comfortable, more mature, has a better grasp on language use, has more self-confidence, etc.
quote:
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment, TV time, schooling (home? public? private?), sex ed., etc.? |
Punishment: we don't hit or spank. Period. When she was little, we punished our daughter with "time-outs"; as she got older, we punished her by taking away privileges (like TV time).
TV Time: this hasn't really been an issue, because school keeps her busy. We also tend to think of aimless watching of whatever's on as different from watching something you really want to watch. We discourage the former but not the latter.
Schooling: we went with public school in the US because we had no alternative, but also because, as small-d democrats, we believed in public education. But in Turkey she's been in a private school, and the difference is like night and day. If we were to move back to the US permanently, we'd probably continue with private schooling (I should note here that all 3 of us love cities and hate suburbia, so living in a top-notch public school district would not be an option).
Sex Ed.: We're going through this right now. Our philosophy has been that no topic is taboo, and we have to be honest about sex at all costs, while also being clear that our views tend not to be in the mainstream, or at least not publicly expressed that often (for example, when it's come up, we've told our daughter that masturbation is natural, extremely common, healthy, fun, and not at all shameful. I think lots of people believe this, but few express it publicly -- remember the Jocelyn Elders fiasco? -- and pop culture, where most teenagers get their ideas about sex and sexuality, is absolutely conter-productive).
Last edited by Rufus T. Firefly on 21-09-2003 at 11:56
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant? |
Moderately relevant for the child itself and the stigma of society that he would have to suffer a bit if he's out of marriage. Then again if our circle is not comprised of dorks, as it wont be, its not really important at all.
quote:
What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother? |
To be a good dad, of course. To have his trust.
quote:
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father? |
to be a good mom and dont spoil him too much
quote:
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have (do you want your kid to be bookish? Atheletic? Casual or high achiever? Male or female?) Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy (animals, physics, math, ballet, music, whatever?) |
1st: to be happy - and also educated would be good and able to stand on his own two feet in society, whatever traits that means = usually that means education and sentimental wholeness. the first is not absolutely necessairy for it IMO but the second is.
about music, athletics etc. He will be subjected to the incidental piano and a variety of other musical instruments and if he happens to like one of them he'll be able to learn to play it with courses in a music hall or at home.
if he likes basketball all the better if not no harm done if some other sport no problem either. but he will come into contact with all those things and whichever triggers his interest he will have the option to learn it.
quote:
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent? |
at least at the beggining i think one would be better to stay at home. and it can be done. later on i dont know.
quote:
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment, TV time, schooling (home? public? private?), sex ed., etc.? |
I have no idea. kids in my wider family (me, 1st cousins etc) were never beaten though and i think i can keep that trait. schooling = private or very good public
sorry for my english but i think in greek for these things and the translations tire me a bit at this time
Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 21-09-2003 at 17:01
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
monolith94
|
 |
New England
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
|
|
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant?
Well, I'd personally prefer a child I have to be born inside a marriage, but if other couples don't want to, I would never hold it against them. So I'd say it isn't really important, but I'd prefer it just because I like the idea of being married.
2. What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother?
I expect myself to be... sarcastic. And, I hope, thin.
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father?
Well, any mother of my offspring would have to have a real love for life and for exploring, like me. And to be interested in ideas.
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have (do you want your kid to be bookish? Atheletic? Casual or high achiever? Male or female?) Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy (animals, physics, math, ballet, music, whatever?)
I personally doubt that my child would be a high achiever in the traditional sense. All of my family strive to do the best we can do, but we do that in an extremely casual, laid back manner. We don't freak about failure. I'd like my child to be somewhat athletic, so that it is good for his/her health, but not somuch that it gets in the way of his/her life. I want both a boy and a girl. I'm not sure what order I want them in yet, but I do think I'd want about a 5-year difference.
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent?
It really depends upon the situation at the time. When I was a kid, both my parents worked, and I got along fine, but when my sister was born, my mom decided to work at home, and take care of us. I always wonder how it would have turned out otherwise...
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment, TV time, schooling (home? public? private?), sex ed., etc.?
Punishment. For punishment, I think the amish method is best, totally ignoring them for a while, so that nothing they do, nothing they say, has any effect. That combined with taking away priveleges should have an effect.
Please note that I'm asking for the ideal answer more than the most likely: i.e., if you prefer for one spouse to stay at home, even though you think that will be unlikely given your current situation, say so. As far as schooling goes, I'd definitely prefer public. Well, the public school I went to, to be specific.  And Jocelyn Elders is a personal hero of mine.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Starchild
|
 |
a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
If you're gay, answer this question assuming that you will be able to adopt a child. In 1987 the ABA estimated that there were 6 million kids of gay, lesbian, or bisexual parents in the USA. I think that sounds rather high, but gay parents are becoming more common.
|
Adopt? What's the point in being able to play God if you dont' actually do it? My (future) Mister Man and I are gonna have 100% bio-kids. With superpowers.
Though, in all seriousness, the novel The Kid has really helped sell the concept of an Open Adoption to me. So may go down that route.
quote:
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant?
|
Marriage, in my experience,is not equal to a loving, stable relationship. The latter is the important bit. It's more vital a child is raised in one long term relationship than any number of loveless marriages driving toward the cliff of divorce.
Besides, there are lots of excuses to get dressed up, get drunk, and spend your parents' money. Marriage is just the most convienent.
quote:
2. What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother?
|
To be everything that my (step)father wasn't to me. To actually be there. To keep my promises. To put my family in front of my career, not the other way around. To actually attempt to know my kids instead of trying to buy our love cause he's an arrogant piece of **** that spent 15 years making my life a living hell....
quote:
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father?
|
See above.
quote:
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have (do you want your kid to be bookish? Atheletic? Casual or high achiever? Male or female?) Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy (animals, physics, math, ballet, music, whatever?)
|
I honestly don't care. Guy or girl, smart, bookish or atheletic and jocky. *shrug* I'd like them to be good at stuff I'm not so good at, like arts or languages. Or they can be as good or better than me in science and stuff. It's their life and I'm not the one doing the driving. I'm just there to enjoy the ride and point out the potholes.
quote:
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent?
|
Two earner families. For that added security of not being dependent on one person to keep the finances in the black and, as much as I dislike to admit it, money does make life easier. I want my kid to see the world, never have to worry about if the rent is gonna get paid, and learn how you can balance a home life and work. That the stuff Rufus mentioned about daycare being good for a kid.
quote:
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment, TV time, schooling (home? public? private?), sex ed., etc.?
|
Honesty, varied by age level. I want the kid to learn how to reason, not just to accept punishment from authority for no reason. If ze does something wrong, I'll tell them and explain why it was wrong. Punishment would be time alone in their room. (The absolute best idea I ever heard was to have a play room seperate from the kid's room. So being sent to your room is actually a punishment). As long as chores are done and homework completed, TV is allowed but reading would be more encouraged.
I just have to iron out the wrinkles and I'll be ready to find love, find a kid, and run the greatest experiment of my life.
And then raise a child.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JohnT
|
|
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:31
|
|
If I ask these questions of you, I might as well answer them.
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant?
Important. A marriage is not just an "agreement" between two people, it is also a social institution where you announce to the world that you claim your partner to the point of exclusivity and are ready to start your own family. Were marriage just the first definition (the agreement), I would be less stringent on this one.
2. What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother?
I expect to be a very good one, and pre-Sophie I expected to be a very good one - but my definition of what it means to be a "good father" sure has changed since the Haughty Twenties. See below.
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father?
I expect that they shall love the child as much as I do, if not more. I was expecting Laura to start paying less attention to me and more to the baby, which she did, but there was nothing wrong with that - there's only 24 hours in a day and a newborn takes up 25 of them. 
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have (do you want your kid to be bookish? Atheletic? Casual or high achiever? Male or female?) Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy (animals, physics, math, ballet, music, whatever?)
I gotta tell you - looks are important. I know we're her parents and I know that we are biased, but we think that Sophie is just a beautiful child, one who's adorableness knows no bounds. People react very favorably towards her, people who wouldn't give me a second glance. We've also raised Sophie to be charming, with lots of hugs and kisses and saying "awwwww." when she sees something cute.
Just as important, Sophie adores her books. She is not a child to play with her toys, but she will grab some of her more than 100 books and either look at them herself or ask her mom or I to read them to her. We read a couple and then tell her to look at the books herself, which she does for up to 1/2 hour on end. I'm now starting to run my finger under the words and eventually she'll catch on - no big hurry, she's not even two.
In short, Sophie is just exactly what I wanted in a baby without me knowing that I wanted it. 
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent?
One stay at home has been the goal since long before we got married, and we were very very careful along the lines of birth control so that we were in charge of when and where we wanted to start a family and not our hormones. Laura's mother was a stay at home mother and Laura just adored being her Mommy's little girl - so she wants to provide the same environment to Sophie. My wife is a wonderful person and if she wants to raise Sophie in the same type of environment that produces the likes of her, that is fine by me. I've seen the results and it works.
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment
Sophies hand gets smacked when she is being disobedient, and has gone over my knee for a couple of swats on her diapered butt once or twice. Nothing that she felt 3 minutes later, my goal was to shock her by the suddenness of it - and that, I did.
Kids will test you. And refuse to reason with you. "Talking" to your 18 month old can be a fruitless affair a lot of times - sometimes you just have to be like Cartman and tell your kid to RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!!!
"TV time"
I was a definite "my kid isn't going to waste her time watching crap (Barney) on TV, no we're going to, er, read her Shakespeare - yeah, that's it!" person in my 20's.
There will be times, gentlemen, in which you will thank God for the numbing effects of Spongebob Squarepants or Barney. Think: flight, long (8+ hour) car drive, at the end of just one, serious f-ed up day at work. I began to see TV as less the work of the devil and more of as a tool to keep Sophie occupied in those times when it was necessary.
Also, you don't want your kid going to school not knowing about Nick Jr., etc. S/he'll be made fun of! 
schooling (home? public? private?)
Most likely public schooling with lots of home augmentation - there won't be any summer's off in our house. The best thing to do is instill a love of reading and let the child plot her own course intellectually, with you helping her.
sex ed
People have sex, get over it. I figure that by the age of 10 Sophie should have a decent understanding of the basics (Mommy and Daddy made love, had a baby) and, starting within a couple of years of that age, begin to go more into the serious social and personal consequences of sex, even to the point using her classmates and their behaviors as examples.
-------------------------
People used to tell me that "you don't understand what it's like until your a parent", and tried to make that sentence seem all wearisome and bothered. Oddly enough, in my experience they are right in principle but wrong in sentiment, because the one thing that I didn't expect nor understand was the love you will have for that baby. That love will be as different and as fullfilling as the love of a woman. Enjoy.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JohnT
|
|
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:31
|
|
Spiffor PM'd me and asked if I could post the following. Thanks for the +0's, Spiff! 
quote:
I'm currently banned (I need to get off 'Poly this week because of the uni), but I found your thread very interesting, hence this PM reply.
1. Is it important to have a child inside of marriage or irrelevant?
It is essential to have a child in a very stable relationship, that will last at least until he's independent. It may be a 'marriage' or simply a 2-decade-long relationship - the official label matters little, but the stability matters hugely.
2. What do you expect of yourself as a father/mother?
Mostly, to teach. My main good trait is to be quite a good teacher, and I sure want to transfer as many of my experiences as possible (= as they'll accept willingly) to my kids. Despite me being pro-self-determination and such (as you could read in the "irreligious household" thread), I admit I'm likely to try getting my kids on the communist side; I sure hope Mrs. Spiffor will fight off this inclination.
3. What do you expect of your spouse as a mother/father?
As shameful as it is, I'd probably expect her to manage most of the boring, day-to-day chores regarding the child (diapers etc.). Of course I'll try to do my part of the job, but I have been raised in a household where the father did no domestic work. And even though I know it's wrong, it is deeply installed in my head.
4. What traits would you prefer the child to have ?
Rather booky, but I'd have no problem with other traits (artisty, athletic). However, I'd insist for the kid to be at least a bit booky, because it is essential for success at school, and success later in life.
Any special interests that you want your child to enjoy
Again, pretty much whatever the kid wants. But I'll do my best for the kid to be interested in "politics" in the broad meaning (being interested in the world that surrounds us beyond our own micro-world).
I'll also try to have the kid get a knack of foreign languages as soon as possible. Subtitled media is the way to go
5. What sort of lifestyle would you like to lead - two earner families or one stay at home parent?
Two earner families. Not really for the kid, but for the family in general. It is essential to have a balanced relationship in order for it to be healthy (and to remain stable). Should one spouse be utterly dependent on the other financially, the relationship will be unbalanced, and that'd suck.
I think the kid can develop well if the parents don't work too many hours each (let's praise the 35 hours week ) |
To be continued...
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JohnT
|
|
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:31
|
|
Another +0 from Spiff.
quote:
6. How would you deal with such hot button issues as punishment, TV time, schooling (home? public? private?), sex ed., etc.?
- Punishment: punishment is a needed tool in raising a kid, but one should not overuse it. I'd do symbolic punishments (lectures) when the kid has knowingly done something wrong, without the misdeed being too risky.
I'd do physical punishment in only two circumstances: 1) when the kid has been misbehaving on something important repeatedly, despite my lectures. 2) if a very strong signal has to be issued: for exemple, if the kid is having a very dangerous behaviour for itself, a physical punishment may ensure it'll not try it again; this of course would be accompanied by a clear lecture whose purpose if for the kid to understand why it was wrong.
As the kid grows, less and less misdeeds will go punished (the unimportant ones that is). One has to let some freedom to the kids if one wants to build a truthful relationship with them. Many non-risky things will be allowed early, such as eating at a friend's house, coming back at 18:00 or 19:00 without notice, etc.
- TV time: Entirely dependent on school results. If the school results are good, TV time will be allowed. If they're bad, he'll have to take more time understanding what is required. But all in all, I do not intend to have any strict rule regarding TV time. However, I intend to explain the kid that TV must be watched with critical thought turned on.
- Schooling: Public obviously. In general in France (except in the worst neighborhoods), public schools have a great social variety. And it may be the only place in his life where my kid will have equal relationships with middle-classes, workers or bourgeois in the same place. Home schooling is a strict NO, unless the kid has some terrible affliction, like the Peanut Allergy
- Sex ed. : well, I am likely to wander naked at home, so nakedness should be something deemed as natural. I intend to explain sexuality in a "scientific" way to the kid as soon as it asks how one makes babies. All of this in a de-dramatizing way: I take sexuality as something completely natural the kids should understand. I'll also explain very clearly that he'll be able to practice it only once puberty is reached.
I do not intend to have any influence over the kids' sexual behaviour (I merely want to transmit knowledge ), but when puberty comes, some discussions about it would be welcome. Of course, they'll be successful only if I manage to build a trustful relationship with the kids during their childhood, so that they may want to listen to me.
After puberty, any lecture the kid doesn't want to hear is completely useless, and even contra-productive. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
a 6 bedroom house
a porshe
a minivan of some type
a sail boat
a cabin
hmm...
Jon Miller
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Bereta_Eder
|
|
Why ON earth is Spiffor banned? What did he do? He's always polite! Sacre Blue! If you can hear me Spiffor, hi!
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:31.
Apolyton Time is 00:31. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
21-09-2003 08:57
). I do expect a reasonable attitude towards sports (like me). And outdoor activities (like me). And a very healthy attitude towards working with their hands- either building things or fixing things (the latter like me 
|