21-09-2003 10:03									#1
	Zen NX Review (iPod "doesn't sound nearly as good") Tired of ads?

I was reading this review of the Zen NX on IGN: http://gear.ign.com/articles/437/437957p1.html

Basically, it's a glowing review, with a score of 9.3/10.

But I remember debating some people on here a while ago about the Zen & Zen NX versus the iPod, and I was basically told I was a moron and clearly no audiophile because the signal-to-noise ratios mean nothing.

But this review addresses that point specifically, in two places:

quote: The best thing about the Zen NX is the sound quality. This has been a trademark of the Nomad line, as Creative's expertise is audio. The NX is no exception. It is loud as hell and clear as a bell from end to end. Like its predecessor, it boasts a 98dB SNR. There is no portable on the market that can hold a candle to the Zen NX, or any Nomad jukebox for that matter, in terms of audio fidelity. All you iPod owners are tricking yourself if you think it can compete with the Zen NX in this department. (I love my iPod, but I have no misgivings about its limitations.) If you appreciate high bit rate MP3s and have a decent set of headphones that NX will keep a smile on your face as long as the batteries are running.

quote: I think the Zen NX is the best jukebox on the market - at least among the models I've used. The iPod is cooler looking and smaller, but it is overpriced and doesn't sound nearly as good. The iRiver has more features, is smaller, and sounds great, but has a small drive and is hella expensive. The RCA has a bigger drive and is nicely priced, but doesn't sound as good and has only a fraction of the features. While the NX has weak spots they are acceptable considering the high points. It sounds outstanding, has a large drive, is loaded with features, and is affordable. Highly recommended.

So there you have it. The iPod is typical Apple: mediocre components, but attractive styling with a ridiculous pricetag.

The usual crowd are welcome to respond that they still think the iPod is worth it due to its look, which is a fine and dandy opinion, up there with thinking large chains and other bling bling will get you laid.

	21-09-2003 10:39									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1675

Man, I'd take one of these over an iPod any day.

	21-09-2003 12:46									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Gotta love SA.

	21-09-2003 13:26									#4
	Suffering from ads?

98 db is a damn good SNR, but it's hard to tell if it means much for most people. Apple won't release the SNR for iPod but it is probably in the 90-95 range. Most people can't hear noise under a signal at a SNR of 96db or so, so the Zen does cross the magic threshold and the iPod probably doesn't. Which definitely gives it bragging rights.

The problem though is that in all portable players the amp/headphone combination is so sorely lacking that it creates enough distortion to overwhelm any benefit that tweaking the SNR from 90 - 98 gets you. We're talking edge of hearing stuff on noise, but typical headphones/amp combos absolutely trash the sound when it hits peaks because the voltage just isn't there to drive the headphones. So really, who cares if you've got a 98db SNR if your headphones need 3 times the voltage at peak response than your system can produce. Your sound will be mud. Noiseless mud, but still mud.

Now if you kick out the bucks for a set of Etymotic ER4Ss and a portable amp (great gear available from Headroom Corporation) then you've got yourself in a position where that 98db SNR is something you'll care about. Unfortunately for me, I've done both and I have an iPod so I am a little bummed that a better piece of gear has hit the market.

I'll have to console myself with iTunes, which is a very sweet piece of music management software (and the iTunes music store makes making playlists so cool - essentially that perfect song to round out the set that you can't find in your own collection is available for a buck - I wanted Nina Simone's "Sinnerman" the other day and there it was for a buck - very happy inducing).

But iTunes won't make my iPod hit 98db SNR.

	21-09-2003 13:36									#5
	Suffering from ads?

The thing that sold me most on a Zen vs the iPod was how much cheaper the Zen was, how the Zen supports WMA and the iPod doesn't (90% of my music is in WMA format). The real kicker was the Zen's 14hr sticker (11hr real world) battery life versus the iPod's 8hr sticker battery life.

	21-09-2003 13:46									#6
	Put an end to popups!

Almost all my stuff is mp3 so I'm platform agnostic. I bought the iPod because at the time it was the only serious choice (I've had it for two years). I've had all sorts of issues with digital cameras behaving oddly with both Macs and Wintels so I wanted to avoid compatibility issues. My home computer is currently a Mac and mac stuff works pretty much seemlessly with mac stuff.

What kind of headphones are you using? If you're just using stock cans I would highly recommend www.headphone.com. Great selection and great info to help choose just the right gear. And no, I don't work for them.

	21-09-2003 13:53									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I use Sennheiser PX200's, because they're

Closed (useful for boring lectures and stuff )

	21-09-2003 14:03									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

That case is very slick. Makes the phones look like they should transform into a little robot to battle other headphones.

	21-09-2003 21:38									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Creative Labs makes pretty good sound cards, but they aren't among the best.

	21-09-2003 23:33									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Sorry but the Zen and it's new sibling the NX sucks. The iPod rules, all sane people know that.
I would never trade my 2nd gen iPod for the Zen Nx. And the 3rd gen iPod is even better.

The sound of the iPod is clear as crystal and the design is perfect!

Apple > Windows

	21-09-2003 23:36									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Is that post meant as a spoof or was it serious?

	21-09-2003 23:37									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

BTW: I'm tired of your Apple bashing Asher. It must be because you're jealous of the great Apple.

	21-09-2003 23:38									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

that was as bad as one of MOBIUS' trolls

	21-09-2003 23:48									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Asher, you're liking 99.999999% right when it comes to Mac VS PC arguement. Why go thru all the effort proving yourself anymore? It just makes you look like a fanboy.

	22-09-2003 00:37									#15
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Zero Asher, you're liking 99.999999% right when it comes to Mac VS PC arguement. Why go thru all the effort proving yourself anymore? It just makes you look like a fanboy.

This thread exists for Agathon, because I resent him calling me a moron earlier regarding sound fidelity on the iPod versus the Zen.

Funny how he's not posting in this thread.

	22-09-2003 00:38									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Actually, this is a far better point than the usual back-and-forth regarding the OS. A lot of that is subjective opinion. This is rather concrete fact that is hard to dispute.

However, I'm sure Agathon will find a way, since philosophy types can make an argument out of anything.

	22-09-2003 09:36									#17
	Suffering from ads?

Ah, I see the review is so decidedly unscientific and subjective. The author spoke of sound quality, but how did he measure it? Under what conditions? Are there any graphs or anything?

quote: Like its predecessor, it boasts a 98dB SNR.

That's nice, but can somebody else verify it?

The whole review is just meaningless chatter with no objective data. So, once again, this comes down to one's priorities and choices.

	22-09-2003 09:43									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

IGN isn't a site about scientific reviews, UR.

The reviewer says it sounds a lot better (not slightly better, mind you -- he made it quite clear there is a noticable difference). Apple doesn't release the SNR for the iPods, and you can bet your ass they would if it was above 98dB, and ever since the 98dB DSP that the Audigy, Audigy 2, and Nomad Jukeboxes have been out for years, nobody has ever raised a stink about them being inaccurate.

If you were looking for a review that involves nice graphs and dB ratings in 100s of environments, IGN's not the site for you. And more power to you, instead of whining about how IGN caters to people rather than ubernerds, why don't you go find an ubernerd site and debunk IGN's subjective findings that agree with both logic and released data.

Otherwise, can it.