21-09-2003 10:40									#1
	Building the FP from Scratch Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Unless we get a GL in this, our first War, we will have to build the FP from scratch. So, what will this entail for us?? What will we have to prebuild before we can even make a decent start on the FP? What will we need in improvements to make it happen, in the shortest amount of time?

Screenshot goes here.....

When we move Cuildo de Alcohol and combine it with the "Fort City", We will have a city that is very deep in the jungle, with only a few tiles to work from. This is not conductive for future FP building, not if we want it built in as short of a period of time as possible. It will have about 54% Corruption/Waste, which is also not very good.

Any way that we look at it, it's going to be our next challenge, in our quest for maintaining and acheiving our dominance in this game. We need to start the process now, if we want it completed before the end of the Middle Ages.

It will need several things to be built (pre-builds) before we actually start.
It will need Jungle cleared.
It will need tiles Improved.
It will need as high of a population that we can safely put in it and still keep it productive.

More on this tomorrow, as it's getting very late for me.

MoI E_T

	21-09-2003 10:43									#2
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Clear some tiles, road-mine-etc. them. Start first on Courthouse and begin growing pop. Probably rush the CH. Get up to size 5, get some hills mined and run at 6 SPT until the thing is finished.

	22-09-2003 21:05									#3
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Isn't the war effort likely to make this difficult to do now?

	23-09-2003 03:50									#4
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It Depends on our priorities and confidence that our production from other centers will take up any little slack. Cuildo is only really good, right now, for Cats and Workers. But IF, we have the possibility of a GL, we need to be ready to move that city so that we can build that FP. And if we don't get any GL's, then we need to start on the process of getting it built.

We can delay and delay for some time, but \if we want to be able to take some advantage of our GA with getting things started, then we need to seriously approach getting it done.

E_T

	23-09-2003 12:25									#5
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So I take it using a possible GL is completely out of the question? I understand we can't plan for that of course. Basically, is our strategy plan for the worst, hope for the best? (Not sure what the conclusion is on using a possible GL for our FP?)

	24-09-2003 06:31									#6
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A successfull planner has several options set up to explore.

For instance, if we do get a GL, it won't likely be on the first turns of the war, but much later. So, we have time to get started on the builds to move those cities. THen, If need be, If that isn't done when we get that GL, then we won't have too much to pay to rush them (while the GL is being moved back home) and we won't have a situation were we were counting on some unit production or other (mil or worker) from them and be forced to change (and maybe lose some sheilds).

Conversly, If we don't get that GL, then we will have made the first step and hopefully, a big part of the next one before our GA is up.

But the thing is, we need to start this process NOW and not later.

MoI E_T

	04-10-2003 01:15									#7
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Ok, I finally figured out where Cuildo de Alcohol is (the screenies in the log are zoomed out).

I assume, then, that the plan would be to build the FP in a nice central spot (which that city certainly is) and then move our palace?

Moving the palace requires a leader. I don't see us managing a palace jump (via disbanding our current cap), given my understanding of how that works. I could be wrong, and if I am, please enlighten me.

Anyway, I'm pondering whether or not we can count on being able to move our Palace via GL. If we don't get one, we're kinda stuck with a short Palace-FP axis.

So we might want to think about trying to build it south of the jungle. The waste might be too much, though, I'll admit. I can't really see building the FP with less than 4 shields/turn.

-Arrian

	04-10-2003 02:03									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The Palace Jump is a relatively simple process that requires us to first prepare the target city (mostly be adding workers to it), de-pop any competators (by building workers), reducing the capital to 2 pop and then building a final settler in our capital while our capital is producing 0 or negative food per turn.

Several of us on the team have pulled off this stunt before and E_T is experienced and very knowledgeable in how to undertake it.

I agree that the Palace jump is the way to go for Apolyton, the only question will be WHERE to jump to ... former GCA land (which we'll have to build from the ground up as they're undertaking a scorched Earth policy) or in CFC ... assuming we decide to attack them.

--Togas

	04-10-2003 07:49									#9
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Except for an Elite Warrior who attaines that rank fighting barbs, we currently have nothing higher than a vet. However, this is only two turns into the war, and GCA must stand and fight one day, so we may have a knock at a GL or two.

	04-10-2003 07:57									#10
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Actually, I think Rhothaerill the MI was promoted to Elite on the first turn. He still needs to finish healing in Nevermore though.

	04-10-2003 08:31									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Actually, I think Rhothaerill the MI was promoted to Elite on the first turn. He still needs to finish healing in Nevermore though.

Yup! [puffed up presence]I was going to say something about the game being an allegory, but that's a bit over the top.[/puffed up presence]

Feel free to deflate me

	04-10-2003 09:26									#12
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It may be cheaper over the longhaul to build a Courthouse in the FP city first, then use the reduced waste to build the FP. Just something I thought I'd throw out there that will probably get a "duh" from the strat forum types or something like that

	04-10-2003 09:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos It may be cheaper over the longhaul to build a Courthouse in the FP city first, then use the reduced waste to build the FP. Just something I thought I'd throw out there that will probably get a "duh" from the strat forum types or something like that

That's an excellent strategy when building the FP manually. I've used it myself on several occasions when needing the FP and the RNG decides to deny me a leader. If I'm in a republic/democracy it's even better since you can rush the courthouse with stored gold instead of population.

And though I'm a strat forum guy I'd never say "duh" to anyone's suggestion...especially a good one. You can always learn something from other's strategies.

	04-10-2003 09:33									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Just had a thought to go along with the discussion from the other day...we have three "FP" designations now. We've already designated Frustrated Poet "FP" and Fried-Psitalon "F-P". What is the forbidden palace going to be?

This is as bad as the GL designation...great leader, great library, great lighthouse.

	04-10-2003 09:56									#15
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Hey Arenlos, "duh"

	04-10-2003 10:23									#16
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Yeah, "duh", Arnelos. Sheesh.




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