21-09-2003 23:08									#31
	Re: What makes us so important Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Zero I think the original question was "Why do human beings consider themselves more important than other species?"

Because we like enjoyment, and viewing ourselves as more important than anything else, and acting accordingly, is the best (easiest) way to go about it.

Really, EVERYTHING tries to be like peope, in that they try to be "dominant" etc. It's just that we're the only ones who actually can.

	21-09-2003 23:15									#32
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Are you including oral histories in that?

Of course.

	21-09-2003 23:17									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I can't agree with this. So if a people organize themselves into a complex society but don't develop written records, they aren't a civilization? This doesn't bode well for Mesoamerican cultures...

No, I think oral and artistic histories are referenceble (if fragile) links of the sort I'm thinking about, and societies based upon them fully qualify for the definition of "civilized." At least in my book.

	21-09-2003 23:18									#34
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What about cave paintings, as was asked earlier? Those are as much a historical record as anything else. Do these mean Neanderthals were civilized?

	21-09-2003 23:26									#35
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They weren´t made by Neanderthals

But IMO, yes, that falls under civilized. They had language, tools, weapons and social structures more advanced than a wolfpack

	21-09-2003 23:36									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What about cave paintings, as was asked earlier? Those are as much a historical record as anything else. Do these mean Neanderthals were civilized?

Compared to the rest of the animals surrounding them, by all means!

	22-09-2003 01:15									#37
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I think the original question was "Why do human beings consider themselves more important than other species?"

Every species considers itself more important than all others. See, relativism can explain everything.

	22-09-2003 01:44									#38
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you should read thru the posts. Few people and I already mentioned that couple of times

	22-09-2003 03:00									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Zero you should read thru the posts. Few people and I already mentioned that couple of times

Yes, but it's so much more important when you say it for yourself.

	22-09-2003 03:10									#40
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why do other species consider themselves more important than humans?

	22-09-2003 03:14									#41
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Other species are stupid. They do not consider things. If they would, they would drive us towards extinction, not vice versa.

	22-09-2003 03:16									#42
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Other species are stupid. They do not consider things. If they would, they would drive us towards extinction, not vice versa.

how many cows have grown fat and happy in our tender loving care!

	22-09-2003 03:17									#43
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And how many were eaten?

	22-09-2003 03:17									#44
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro And how many were eaten?

I doubt they minded=D

	22-09-2003 03:18									#45
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Perhaps they considered to be eaten and found out it is a great thing for a cow

	22-09-2003 03:19									#46
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro Perhaps they considered to be eaten and found out it is a great thing for a cow

I'm guessing more in the realm of ignorant indifference.

	22-09-2003 03:20									#47
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Hey, how can you, those animals really can a lot things better than we can....










....eg they have more meat

	22-09-2003 03:27									#48
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Humans benefit from having each other around. For example, the apolyton people provide me with interesting discussion. Cats do not. Hence I care more about the life of an Apolytoner than the life of a cat.

	22-09-2003 03:42									#49
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are you sure Apolytoners really provide interesting discussion?

(actually, the question is, do we provide INTELLIGIBLE discussion )

	22-09-2003 03:43									#50
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Meow

	22-09-2003 03:45									#51
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btw, I remember that banner ad where MargG was going to shoot a kitten if we didn't buy apolytonwear... that one always cracked me up

	22-09-2003 03:46									#52
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Yeah, I think it is still in the poly shop somewhere (for tshirts or mousepads)

	22-09-2003 03:51									#53
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker btw, I remember that banner ad where MargG was going to shoot a kitten if we didn't buy apolytonwear... that one always cracked me up

One of the student has a website devoted to how much our school sucks. And on that website he said he will chop a kitten's head of if people didnt viist his site. He got a letter from animal rights group activists demanding not to use such humor.

He changed it to: We got Halley Joel Osment hostage, which is nowhere near funny. And animals rights groups had no problem whatsoever to kidnapping and child abuse humor.

	22-09-2003 03:54									#54
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Why'd he change, though? If they find it offensive, **** 'em.

	22-09-2003 03:56									#55
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You can view it one of two ways, the Creationist viewpoint or the Evolutionist viewpoint.

Creationist: Man is created in the image of God. With a purpous granted to us by that Creator.Therefor we claim superiority over those beings which are not, and which possess no divine mission.

Evolutionist: Man is the highest pinnacle of all the millenia of Evolution. We are not inherently superior to animals and yet we are , as Zero said, at the top of the pile right now.

	22-09-2003 03:59									#56
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Why'd he change, though? If they find it offensive, **** 'em.

they threathened him with lawsuits I believe. Im not quite sure.

I think he just wanted to avoid the hassle of making them look like idiots.

EDIT: http://www.portjeffweb.com/stonybrook/peta.html

	22-09-2003 04:01									#57
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How can you sue someone for a frigging JOKE?!

	22-09-2003 04:01									#58
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quote: You can view it one of two ways, the Creationist viewpoint or the Evolutionist viewpoint. Creationist: Man is created in the image of God. With a purpous granted to us by that Creator.Therefor we claim superiority over those beings which are not, and which possess no divine mission. Evolutionist: Man is the highest pinnacle of all the millenia of Evolution. We are not inherently superior to animals and yet we are , as Zero said, at the top of the pile right now.

So it is more or less the same, just with a different reasonsing behind it? I mean - God or not - in the end we are now the most successful species on Earth (so far, who knows when the cows overthrow us )

	22-09-2003 04:08									#59
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Humans think they are imprtant because of the rise of organized religion, many hunter-gather societies thenk of themselves as part of nature, at least that is what my classical mythology textbook said.

SKILORD: Evolutionists don't belive we are special, we arn't even on the top of the pile, that belongs to social insects and beetles success-wise. To an Evolutionary Biologist we are basically generalist omnivores with big brains. our big brains are no better an adaptation then say, the speed of a cheetah or the flexible jaw of lizards, or the complex cell parts of some protozoans, or the remarkable metabolic abillities of Archaebacteria.

	22-09-2003 04:10									#60
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Actually... I'd say our brains are a MUCH better adaptation than a cheetah's speed or a lizard's jaws.

We could easily make cheetahs extinct, same for lizards (though it'd be harder with them because of the sheer number). However, cheetahs aren't about to make humans extinct anytime soon.