21-09-2003 23:20									#1
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3104892.stm

quote: Video games back in US dock By Rachel Clarke BBC News Online in Washington Claims by teenage boys in Tennessee that they were acting out the Grand Theft Auto game when they shot at vehicles are threatening to put the US entertainment industry back on trial. One man was killed and a woman was badly hurt when William Buckner, 16, and his step-brother Joshua, 14, decided to relieve their boredom by opening fire on traffic on Interstate 40 with a .22-calibre rifle. Lawyer Jack Thompson has taken up the case and plans to sue the makers of Grand Theft Auto, saying they should bear some responsibility for the death of Aaron Hamel, a 45-year-old nurse and the injuries caused. Mr Thompson said if manufacturers wanted to keep selling violent games to children, they should be prepared for the consequences he believes repeated playing can have on young and impressionable minds. He told BBC News Online that parents and the individuals involved also bore responsibility, but argued that without the games there might be fewer murders. "Nobody is saying that a video game by itself can turn someone into a mass killer," he said. "But the law is that if you make a product that is linked in a chain of events, and but for that link the final tragedy would not have occurred, you are liable. You don't have to have little angels turned into killers." Mr Thompson said it was particularly important to protect children as they were increasingly being tried as adults though their young age may mean they understand less of what they do. Looking for answers The Entertainment Software Association (ESA), which represents the video game industry, points to research showing that parents overwhelmingly know what games are coming into their homes and being played by their children. While video games may provide a simple excuse for the teenagers involved in this incident, responsibility for violent acts belongs to those who commit them Douglas Lowenstein, president Entertainment Software Association It also says violent games are played elsewhere in the world where incidences of violent crime remain lower than in the US, suggesting the causes are not the games. Take-Two Interactive Software, which publishes Grand Theft Auto, said it had no comment on the case. Douglas Lowenstein, ESA president, described the killing of Aaron Hamel as an "unspeakable tragedy". In a statement, he said it was understandable that bereaved people would look anywhere for answers. But he cited the Surgeon General of the United States, the Washington State Department of Health and the Government of Australia as all finding no credible evidence that violent games led to violent behaviour. "While video games may provide a simple excuse for the teenagers involved in this incident, responsibility for violent acts belongs to those who commit them," he said. "We cannot comment of the specifics of this case but, instead of finger pointing at a game played by millions of Americans every day, we should be asking what led to the actions of these two children. "Given the science and given the fact that these teenagers had unsupervised access to shotguns and made the decision to fire them on innocent motorists, blaming video games is misguided and counterproductive." Grand Theft Auto is one of the best-selling games of all time. In the US, it carries a mature rating, for aged 17 and over. Kentucky loss Mr Thompson has fought this battle before - and lost. He was involved in a case where the families of three students shot by a 14-year-old schoolmate tried to sue video game manufacturers among others for responsibility in the deaths at their school in Paducah, Kentucky. It appears simply impossible to predict that these games... would incite a young person to violence 2002 court ruling in Kentucky It was argued that Michael Carneal had been so influenced by playing games such as Doom, Quake and Resident Evil where participants shoot virtual opponents that the games had contributed to driving him to kill. But the case, which also targeted internet and movie producers was thrown out finally by an appeals court last year. The judges wrote: "It appears simply impossible to predict that these games, movie, and internet sites (alone, or in what combinations) would incite a young person to violence. "Carneal's reaction to the games and movies at issue here, assuming that his violence actions were such a reaction, was simply too idiosyncratic to expect the defendants to have anticipated it. "We find that it is simply too far a leap from shooting characters on a video screen (an activity undertaken by millions) to shooting people in a classroom (an activity undertaken by a handful, at most) for Carneal's actions to have been reasonably foreseeable to the manufacturers of the media that Carneal played and viewed." New chances Mr Thompson said the different laws and system in Tennessee may give him the chance to make his case to a jury rather than just to a judge which could help. We are going to hammer their [violent game publishers'] coffin shut in Tennessee if we are fortunate enough to get to a jury Jack Thompson, lawyer He claimed some links between violent games and violent behaviour are now being claimed by expert associations. He said there had been various successes - or nails in the coffin of violent video games - and added: "We are going to hammer their coffin shut in Tennessee if we are fortunate enough to get to a jury." Mr Thompson said he will file his petition in Tennessee soon, and that he hopes to have a result by this time next year. He said he hoped that punitive damages "in eight figures" would be ordered. But he is also already looking to another case where he believes video games may have played a role in a tragedy. Last month, a 14-year-old boy in southern Ohio stabbed his aunt to death, possibly while sleepwalking. Just hours earlier, he had been playing a game called Diablo. It is "hugely significant," Mr Thompson said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/...ogy/3104892.stm Published: 2003/09/15 08:04:07 GMT © BBC MMIII

When are people going to get over blaming video games for the actions of seriously misguided people? Though, I have to admit, it will be interesting to see what a jury has to say about it, if they get one.

	21-09-2003 23:22									#2
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How is it the game's fault that the kids did it? This is sick. People are claiming that they have NO RESPONSIBILITY for their actions. Whether or not you were "influenced" to do something, YOU made the decision. It is YOUR fault.

	21-09-2003 23:26									#3
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That's just it. If you have 100 people in a room, you'd be lucky if 25 of them took responsibility for their actions. The other 75 would be hemming and hawing and pointing fingers.

Gatekeeper

P.S. I had a bad night's sleep. Is that a good enough excuse to go out and shoot a pasture full of sheep?

	22-09-2003 00:41									#4
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They should have said they'd been watching live TV broadcasts of people shooting in the Iraqi war and sued the Bush administration. That would have been more fun to listen to, and it wouldn't have the potential to hurt anyone who actually contributes something reasonably useful to society, like video game designers.

	22-09-2003 01:55									#5
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good, I was appalled at the violence in Grand Theft Auto.

When will it end? How long until games have gang rapes?

This madness has to stop

	22-09-2003 02:01									#6
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quote: good, I was appalled at the violence in Grand Theft Auto.

Appalled or not, adults who wish to play those games have every right to do so, and any company who can sell it should be able to. As a parent, it's your responsibilty to be aware of the games your child is buying and playing. The rating on the box is an excellent indicator, and it's pretty obvious what it means. Besides that, there is no demonstrable, causual relationship between playing violent games and committing violent acts.

	22-09-2003 02:08									#7
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this responsibility bullshit is... well bullshit.

Games should not be sold to kids period. Now if the parent buys the game for the kid, that is okay.

But recent undercover operations still show that people are selling these games to kids

No one under the age of 18 should be allowed to buy these games. Or is it 17? It is rated M, and this law should be enforced.

	22-09-2003 02:12									#8
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And what fault of the game companies is this? They don't sell direct. If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at the retailers who hand these games out to just anyone who wants them. Besides, this lawsuit still holds no water, due to the lack of a cause/effect relationship between violence in games and violence in real life. Not to mention that parents should still be aware of what their children are doing on the computer.

	22-09-2003 02:13									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

actually some studies have shown that violent video games affect young kids.

	22-09-2003 02:13									#10
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EVEN IF there was a causal relationship, you are responsible for your own actions. Other people are not.

	22-09-2003 02:15									#11
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don't get me wrong, I think this lawsuit is bullshit. I am going to create a thread soon on how lawyers are destroying this country.

But I do believe that a rating system must be more effective at education parents (most parents don't even know what the rating system means), and preventing selling games to children.

	22-09-2003 02:16									#12
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People are too stupid to understand the rating system, and its the manufacturers fault?

Don't you think someone THAT STUPID deserves what's coming to them?

	22-09-2003 02:17									#13
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quote: actually some studies have shown that violent video games affect young kids.

However, none have shown a causual link. Correlative studies are great, and important to science, but I can correlate a rise in ice cream sales to a rise in crime if I want to. So far, even the correlative evidence for the link in this case is extremely poor.

	22-09-2003 02:53									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Giant_Squid They should have said they'd been watching live TV broadcasts of people shooting in the Iraqi war and sued the Bush administration. That would have been more fun to listen to

Suing thier parents for thier poor supervision/upbringing would have been more fun to me.

	22-09-2003 05:35									#15
	Put an end to popups!

Just removing these kids from the gene-pool sounds fun to me.

Idiots.

	22-09-2003 06:57									#16
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Oh, and ignoring all of the problems with causual evidence and supervision of children when they're using a computer, what were they doing with a rifle. This case smacks of irresponsibility on the part of the parents. If there's a gun in the house, you damn well better explain appropriate use, and consequences of inappropriate use to your kids.