11-05-2001 09:00									#1
	Do you play all starts ? Get a bigger avatar today!

As the title states.......

When you start up a new game of civ do you play every start that comes up whether or not it has tech? Whether or not the first 10 turns yield good land? Whether the huts reward or punish etc.......?

As for myself..... whenever i do dabble in SP civ nowadays, I don't play any games that give me tech to start with. I prefer to research or steal all the tech I need.

The only time i reset my game is if on a small map i start in the poles and i do mean the edges of the top or bottom of the map. Otherwise i play out each one completely. If this means wandering till 3200bc so be it.... hopefully i will have about 8+ units looking for easy kills and early vet status.

Of course i will have undoubtably picked up a few techs and cash on the way...... probably WC

If i am in the mood for a challenge and i get clobbered by barbs with that second settler opening the hut, i will play it out..... doesn't happen often (thank the lord) but in the past i have been known to scrap those games few as they maybe.

Anyways just curious about what others do..... A long time ago there was a debate about starting techs and whether people thought it was "too easy" to play those starts.

	11-05-2001 10:15									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I've been playing some SP small map games during the day lately. Odd how boredom affects some people, isn't it? Seven civs, raging hordes, the whole catastrophe. The nice thing about small maps is that the AI never builds more than about 3 or 4 cities. Crunch!

Anyway, I restart if I get free techs, and if my starting point is somewhere on one of the poles. Otherwise I march forth. Except for the other day. I met another civ before I'd build my first city, I was just about to build my capital, barb archers arrived and killed both my settlers. Bummer.

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	11-05-2001 12:11									#3
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yes I do. well at least until midgame when I become bored

but unless I find out I screwed up when creating the game (wrong civ chosen, or if playing earth map and I'm in the wrong location) I always play through.

	11-05-2001 13:39									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I can't remember the last start I scratched - although I generally have dozens of unfinished games on the go at any one time - my preference is to play until my victory is assured and (assuming there is no record or outstanding aspect) then abandon - if it looks like I might lose - I play to the bitter (but thankfully rare) end.

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Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
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were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	11-05-2001 16:50									#5
	Tired of ads?

Tres Churchillian, SG1.

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	11-05-2001 20:16									#6
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I usually play on pre-made earth maps, and intentionally give myself poor starting positions, so that's not a factor. However, a random map polar start might be enough to restart. I will usually only restart if every other civ declares war on me at first contact. Sometimes it isn't clear until 200bc when my explorer finds AI civ #6, who promptly declares war without so much as a "hello." Do we smell bad? Are we too ugly? I restart, and hope for more charismatic people the next time...

I did once restart on a world map, starting on London's site. Why? The Chinese started two sqaures away with a settler and a warrior! (I saw them in my city window upon settling.) I didn't feel like sitting thru that loser movie three seconds after starting the game.


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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

	11-05-2001 20:30									#7
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I play those polar starts. But I find I only get them if I am the purple civ on a small map (not the game I'm currently choosing). And if you get one another follows. So now if I play one I shift to a non purple civ next time.

Curiously they turn out to be less of a handicap than you might expect. You don't get pestered there - it is a obvious (well only obvious to me I suppose after I stopped grossly undervaluing it) to go for the Lighthouse early and, I'm pretty sure, you're slower early pace results in the A1 getting some penalty or other which slows them down too.

Otherwise I like to stick to one game and see it through.

I'm not obsessive about always winning. What I like to do is try some idea out and refine it through a series of games. I am sometimes aware that an easy win could be had by switching to some alternative strategy - go fundy say and launch an all out attack. But I've been there, done that and got the T shirt so I rarely bother. The mere fact that this means the A1 beats me sometimes doesn't trouble me much. He's an equabble sort of fellow and doesn't boast more than is proper.

After all, he is man enough to play out long losing games against me, trying his slightly challenged best to the end. I reckon to be man enough to accord him the same courtesy.

	12-05-2001 04:19									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The main reason i don't play small maps is the ai's lack of expansion. Too many times its 200bc and i have crushed everyone and there is only mop up duty

large maps make for a much longer game but i find med maps to be my greatest fun! gives the ai a slight chance to build at least one maybe two civs up for a war

I have never reset a med map although on a couple of occassions i did start on the poles with no way out and fired those ones into the recycle bin.

Win or lose i think its important to play out games to the finish.... one can learn alot about maps by searching for that reclusive "former" world power muahahahahaha sorry dont know where that came from

alas i don't SP anymore unless i am trying a new strategy or doing OCC or a challenge game

	12-05-2001 06:05									#9
	Tired of ads?

I never quit and restart if I don't like the starting conditions.
Well, except when I'm cheating a bit and want to find a sweet setup I can then modify with the map maker (why can't you put specials down in map making?
most of the time, I just play it out. come what may. gives me interesting varied experiences.

	12-05-2001 08:37									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have a bad habit of cheating on the games that I either get bored with or am losing badly: acquire all techs and nuke the game. I suppose if I were more disiplined (and played more often) about not cheating and finishing games, it would make me a better player. Ah well, may be after Monday night; it's my LAST Pack Meeting as Cub Master and suddenly my evenings and weekends will be free again. I may even fit in MP games between household chores!

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Be what you is and not what you is not. Folks who do that are the happiest lot!
- Mr. Wizard the Lizard,

	12-05-2001 20:49									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Sometimes an unlucky start can make you learn a few new things while trying to overcome the bad luck. A good example is the game I replayed and posted in the "no spaceship parts" thread, where I was unlucky by getting Invention fairly early from a hut, a big handicap since I was trying to prove how a special map could lead to the discovery of Space Flight before 1 AD. In that game, I discovered for the first time that one-turn advances were possible in OCC with the ideal city sites on that map, and with them were able to overcome the early appearance of Invention, and still get to Space Flight in BC years. That discovery got me thinking a BC arrival was possible, which indeed happened on a subsequent try, when I had a better start. If I had given up on the previous unlucky start, I would not have learned the new thing which made it possible to land before 1 AD.

So while bad starts can make you dig deeper and find new ways to success, continuing every single start would seem silly, since the game takes so long to play. I don't think I'd want to play out more than one game from a polar start, or any other game that reminded me too much of a previous one. If a game becomes uninteresting, I'll start another. If I started a game with a special purpose in mind, and it becomes obvious that the goal I've set is obviously out of reach, I'll start another, too, modifying my strategy in an attempt to do better.

	14-05-2001 05:39									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Father Beast, I agree that reloads during experimental games, where you want to test the effectiveness of one strategy vs. another can help you learn what works best, but different results may not be all due to changes in strategy. Many game events are randomized in subtle or unseen ways that can have a marked effect on what happens later. Hence, the reason for fresh starts when there is a specific goal in mind, such as an early AC landing.

As many of the great MP players here rightfully (and tirelessly!) claim, the best test of a new strategy is in how it fares in competition against human opponents, where reloads are not an option.

	16-05-2001 09:22									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

I can't start my actual life over, so I see no need to in Civ.

	16-05-2001 09:35									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Trying for the "perfect game" is a boring idea if you ask me. Playing through hardships and actually having to think are GOOD things. Starting in a desert or on a glacier will make things more difficult and get that imagination of yours working. Starting in the back of the pack was always part of my strategy in sp games. I liked to actually have to fight for things, rather than just breeze through everything. I liked having the possibility of losing. It just makes things so much more fun and victory all that much better.

Nowadays, since my sp days have ended, I need not worry about changing the fate of my civ, for once a turn is played (in MP) there is no going back.....and I'm stuck with all my stupid mistakes (like letting my democracy crumble on it's second year as I have done in my current game). This threw a wrench in my plans, but as I work through it, I'll be better off in the end and a stronger player to boot.

It's just not fun for me to dominate. I need tension or I get bored.

So..........to get back to the point.........no I don't reset a game if things arent going my way......I may quit however if I've gotten too strong.

	16-05-2001 09:55									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I personally agree with the tension factor being important. At the end of the day, a game should absorb you, not be a stroll in the park. For example, if you are wiped out after about a hundred years, and you're struggling, with maybe a single city, don't you think you would need to think of some plans quick, to get you out of trouble? Just wondering what every1 else thinks about this?

	16-05-2001 19:11									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

drake i agree..... there is no point playing MP or SP if it is a cakewalk... you dont' learn anything and there is no thrill of the chase.

Best position is to be middle of the pack (still contending for wonders of course) and then make your leap when appropriate.

This is extremely important in MP as it gives the facade that your not powerfull and thus not a threat when in reality your a crouching tiger/hidden dragon

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	16-05-2001 19:23									#20
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Hey war, the hotw world crew misses your company, but Mongolias new leader (Easthaven) has taken over and done quite a good job with your foundation...........The playing field in that game is very even at this point and because of this it's gotten very interesting and enjoyable......

Of course in a mp game with 7 people, unless you're just so much better than your competition, it's gonna be fairly even..........which is why mp is so much better than sp

	17-05-2001 17:59									#23
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I play some turns on all the starts. If it is too uneasy, I stop. It is a play.

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Henri Bourjade

[This message has been edited by hbourj (edited May 17, 2001).]