22-09-2003 17:38									#1
	CP orders 1758AD: temper our military a little? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I came, I saw the Save and I was shocked .

Some info that will give a beter perspective.
We have 50 cities
and we are currently building 24 fanatics ,8 cannons and 6 diplomats
Only 4 settlers, 4 markets, 2 banks and 1 aquaduct are beeing build.(and 1 barracks)

1 thing we all know very wel is that our science rate really sucks. 1tech every 24turns!!!
What could be the cause of this?
We only have 12 libraries and 1 university. How could we ever gain speed in our science department if we have no places of learning?
We make only 237G every turn(and have 64G costs)
Why do we only make 4,74G/city on average?
We only have 12 markets and NO banks.

There is only 1 way to change all this and that is by turning the warmachine a nodge or 2 down.
at the moment we have:
190 military units (of wich 59 fanatics,18 cannons,22Crucs+Knight+Dragoons)
19diplomats
and 24 settlers.

my suggestion would be to finish the units currently under construction(+24fanatics +8cannons)
and then start build libraries,markets,universities and banks.

My plan would be(for the cities wich aren't located in dangerour areas(*see below)) that our cities wich are size 4 and higher use the following one of these buildqueues:
A) 1.Market 2.Library 3.Bank 4.University
B) 1.Library 2.Market 3.University 4.Bank
(except if there are special reasons why not to)

Size6 and higher should build an aquaduct if it isn't there already.

For the smaller cities I would suggest to build millitary units(don't count settlers and diplo's) up to the number of 3(in support), then start the above buildqueues

The goal would be to get the number of libraries and markets up to 35(ie +23markets+23libaries) and the number of banks and univerities at least to 7.

These numbers should give us a serious improvement in tax and science.
previous session we build up an almost unstopable army now I believe we should make our infrastructure the best of our world.(it is also the only way to keep our army up to date)

Therefore I would also suggest to use as much gold as needed to get to our goal.(35markets,35libraries,7banks and 7 universities)

At the same time we should also keep our settler and city production up to speed.

*list of cities in dangerous areas

• Sheol
  
• Styx
  
• Chicago
  
• Outpost
  
• Argos
  
• Rammstein
  

Last edited by shade on 22-09-2003 at 17:47

	22-09-2003 17:49									#2
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Celebrations will improve our productivity. You can get almost every city to celebrate with a little effort.

	22-09-2003 17:56									#3
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but the drawbacks would be...no more growth. It only lasts as long as we can put up the effort(we are talking about 50 cities now). I think improving our situation is the most stable way to do this.We have to keep evolving(otherwise we will die out

Shade

	22-09-2003 18:42									#4
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current development plan for our cities.
(all that is beeing build at the moment should be finished before we start with what is placed in the productionqueue.

code:

Name(Size)	Building(prog)	shields	trade	food            Production+info
Nognix(1)	Fanatics(2/20)	2	1	5	
Assurancetourix(1)Fanatics(8/20) 2	1	5	
Kostunrix(1)     Fanatics(4/20)	1	2	7	
Hoefnix(1)	Fanatics(8/20)	2	2	5	
Obelix(1)	Fanatics(12/20)	2	1	5	
Shield(1)	Fanatics(12/20)	2	1	5	units
Outpost(2)	Fanatics(5/20)	5	3	6	
Arrows(2)	Fanatics(0/20)  3	3	7	Fanatic,Dragoon
Rammstein(2)	Diplomat(20/30)	4 	0 	6	
Ruin(2)	         Diplomat(0/30)	9	1	4	Diplos
Oryx(3)	       Fanatics(7/20)	7	2	8	
Dallas(3)	Settlers(24/40)	4	1	7	
Melkweg(3)	Fanatics(12/20)	4	1	9	
Sheol(3)	Cannon(25/40)	6	1	7	SMC orders
Idefix(3)	Fanatics(15/20)	5	6	8	
Famine(3)	Fanatics(16/20)	4	2	9	Settlers
Rack(3)	     Diplomat(20/30)	5	1	7	Change production to a settler, rush it and let it continue the irrigation works to irrigate Rack and Ruin
Sebennytus(4)	Settlers(39/40)	4	4	15	1more defender,market,library
Paradiso(4)	Fanatics(12/20)	4	1	11	Units,diplos
Flood(4)	Settlers(21/40)	5	3	11	Units, Market
Doom(4)	        Diplomat(0/30)	8	5	11	Units, Market
Phlegethon(4)	Fanatics(0/20)	5	3	11	Units
Plague(4)	Market(35/80)	5	10	13	Library, Bank, settler
Plenty(4)	Fanatics(0/20)	7	4	14	Market, Library
Purgatorio(4)	Cannon(0/40)	8	4	10	Market, Library
Baltimore(4)	Diplomat(0/30)	8	3	10	Units
Havoc(4)	Market(7/80)	7	6	11	Market, settler, bank, diplo
Inferno(4)	Cannon(8/40)	8	4	10	Market, Library
Misery(4)	Barraks(39/40)	3	11	13	Library, unit, bank, unit, University
HereticsVillage(4)Cannon(10/40)	5	5	11	Market,settler,unit
Pax Apolyton(4)	Fanatics(5/20)	5	4	13	Market,settler,bank
Gehinnom(5)	Fanatics(5/20)	5	8	14	Library,Market
Ore(5)	          Market(18/80)	6	13	13	Libray,bank,university
New Apocalyps(5)Fanatics(0/20)	5	7	14	units
Buffalo(5)	Diplomat(15/30)	5	8	11	Market, Library
Devastation(5)	Fanatics(0/20)	4	7	15	Setller(for irrigation and stuff near the city), bank
Pestilence(5)	Market(21/80)	3	6	16	Library, unit
Desolation(5)	Cannon(8/40)	8	6	15	Market, settler, units
Shadowpalace(5)	Cannon(25/40)	5	5	15	 Bank, Library
Bear’s Cave(5)	Cannon(0/40)	10	5	11	Market, Bank
Dominion(5)	Fanatics(12/20)	6	10	12	Market, Military units
Newton(5)	Bank(20/120)	5	15	13	University
Atomant’s Hell(5)Fanatics(16/20) 6	6	15	Market, Library
Argos(6)	Fanatics(0/20)	12	4	14	Sell granary+SMC orders
Enron(6)	Cannon(0/40)	6	8	17	Settler, University, bank,aquaduct
Glorificus(6)	Settlers(21/40)	7	6	17	Aquaduct,University,bank
Majestica(6)	Fanatics(11/20)	11	6	18	Aquaduct, Bank
Imperialis(6)	Fanatics(6/20)	6	7	21	Bank, Aquaduct, University
Styx(8)	     Aquaduct(36/80)	9	13	24	SMC orders
Chicago(9)	Bank(40/120)	8	15	19	Library,diplo,university
					
					
					

Last edited by shade on 22-09-2003 at 18:55

	22-09-2003 19:22									#5
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I hate the idea of building libraries in Fundamentalism. It's such a waste.

Marketplaces have the advantage of boosting celebrations, so those might be an option if we want a celebrating Fundamentalism. But celebrations in Fundy are only really helpful when delivering caravans, which we don't do. So, there may not be much point in celebrating... unless we build a lot of libraries/banks/unis to take advantage of the extra arrows.

If we do that... that's a lot of infrastructure for Fundamentalism. We might as well add some colosseums and switch to Republic after it's all built, if we really want to boost science.

The other option is to build a lot of Cannons/Dragoons/Diplomats and go after people. We don't really need any more science to win this one.

	22-09-2003 20:51									#6
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I too was amazed to see how many military units we had and were building. I agree that it is perhaps time to improve our city infrastructure. We won't be a Fundie government forever.

However, I don't think it is a good idea to rushbuild the city infrastructure. Buying a Marketplace is not a very good return on investment. There are good opportunities to bribe cities with our gold, which can have a much faster payback for those American cities far from their capital.

Since we are getting closer to Explosives, I think we should hold off on building new Settlers. We'll get Engineers for the same cost soon enough.

	22-09-2003 20:56									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man The other option is to build a lot of Cannons/Dragoons/Diplomats and go after people. We don't really need any more science to win this one.

I couldnt agree more with this statement. The only 2 techs we need to win this fairly quick is Explosives and Railroad. We are now about halfway through Explosives while Americans are researching RR for us

I would prefer building cannons instead of dragoons, we will have engineers and railroad soon so dont realy need them.

	22-09-2003 21:12									#8
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear I too was amazed to see how many military units we had and were building. I agree that it is perhaps time to improve our city infrastructure. We won't be a Fundie government forever.

If I look at the game its going to be over in late october/early november.
The only thing we need is RR and engineers and we can capture a civs core easy while bribing the outer rim.

quote: Since we are getting closer to Explosives, I think we should hold off on building new Settlers. We'll get Engineers for the same cost soon enough.

I agree, we are building a couple now but as we are planning a couple of more city's on the way to our enemy's they will be usefull.

EDIT: And with the new plans by our MoW for the quick capture of Washington they will upgrade instantly

	23-09-2003 03:22									#9
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quote: If I look at the game its going to be over in late october/early november.

My guess would be january, if all goes perfect.
(at the current rate we will then have 7 new techs adn accumulated 28.000G for bribing cities)

My hopes aren't that enthousiastic, so I would rather go for a little strawl at the moment so we are strong enough to fight a long battle.The ideas to take out washington started previous cabinet, and the troops are still on their way...

Shade

	23-09-2003 03:54									#10
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If we wait untill Americans get Railroad and on the next turn take out Washington we might get to bribe some of the South American city's too

Then just get an army of 30+ engineers working on highways to Greeks and Zulu. Throw in instants forts, vet cannons and hordes of fanatics and you have a fastmoving unstoppable army

	23-09-2003 07:03									#11
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quote: We won't be a Fundie government forever.

Why bother with Communism? By the time we get the tech, we should have won the game. The Americans are already researching RailRoad, and then we can finish off Tactics.

I don't see the point of more science.

	23-09-2003 07:25									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The cash would be our biggest asset for bribing (as has been done so successfully recently). As long as we are able to bribe/steal every tech that someone else gets that we don't have, we will be at a par, and what more do we need than that?

Markets, Banks, happiness improvements would serve us best. We should endeavour to keep a fair force of military around - say no more than 8 Cannons and a few Fanatics per enemy civ for those tough nut cities like Washington or those in Demo, but for the most part have a force of diplos to bribe, bribe, bribe our way to victory.

	23-09-2003 08:33									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Science Minister I don't see the point of more science.

Anyone else see the irony in this (though I agree completely, all I think we still need is Explosives, Railroad and Tactics and I think we have enough science to win the game.

* Sparrowhawk Foreign Minister

	23-09-2003 19:07									#14
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January sounds about right to me, too. This is a big map, and it will take time to build roads and RR. The biggest problem may be getting the other civs to stay dead once we kill them. We could overrun the entire map and still have to go back and re-search empty lands for one or 2 new Capitals or Japanese or Spanish civs.

	23-09-2003 21:31									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Anyone else see the irony in this (though I agree completely, all I think we still need is Explosives, Railroad and Tactics and I think we have enough science to win the game. * Sparrowhawk Foreign Minister

Although ironic I think the SM makes the right statement

Good to see a Science Minister who is more concerned about the overall state of our nation then only his private army of researchers.

	23-09-2003 21:40									#16
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear January sounds about right to me, too. This is a big map, and it will take time to build roads and RR. The biggest problem may be getting the other civs to stay dead once we kill them. We could overrun the entire map and still have to go back and re-search empty lands for one or 2 new Capitals or Japanese or Spanish civs.

The respawning civs can be a problem, but that can be solved by letting 1 city of every civ survive and take them all in one turn.
(I know the people including me voted against that plan in the past but we might reconsidder this)

With an army of 30 engineers we can build RR (instant movement) on a 10 tile stratch every turn.
Railroading mountains will take longer but we can just build city's on the mountain passes.

If we take the time before we get Exp and RR to build a horde of Fanatics and Cannons then we can switch all our city's to engineers when we get the techs.
And as most civ's will have their core roaded we only need to build RR to the edges of their core.

Simply put I believe we can win this in another 5-6 sessions when we play the numbersgame right.

	24-09-2003 00:12									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Anyone else see the irony in this

quote: Science Minister who is more concerned about the overall state of our nation then only his private army of researchers.

Thanks, although we could use more science improvements.

	24-09-2003 00:59									#18
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Well, since leaving 1 city from each civ alive was frowned upon earlier when I brought it up as a strategy, I had no reason to think it might be reconsidered. I'm glad to see we might possibly want to consider this in the future.

	24-09-2003 01:01									#19
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Its a Demogame isnt it? We can do anything we want

	24-09-2003 01:09									#20
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Darn Right!

I love this format!

	24-09-2003 02:08									#21
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one bannana, two bannana.

I think libraries and universities in Fundy are a waste of tax $$$. I would rather see a cathedral in a large fundy city then library and University, Makes citizen happy AND creates tithes.

The rest of this game is going to be based more on financial power and mobility of units so I vote for more diplomats and settlers (which will become engineers when we take washington) If any improvements are built they should be in the core, let the outer cities work toward global domination, as we expand outward it will be less important for those cities to produce units and they can begin the markets and library's.

	24-09-2003 10:43									#22
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quote: Originally posted by atawa The respawning civs can be a problem, but that can be solved by letting 1 city of every civ survive and take them all in one turn.

We don't need to worry about this any more. According to Monk's posting on the strategy forum, we are past the date when there are no more re-spawns.

RJM at Sleeper's

	24-09-2003 20:30									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Zedd one bannana, two bannana. I think libraries and universities in Fundy are a waste of tax $$$. I would rather see a cathedral in a large fundy city then library and University, Makes citizen happy AND creates tithes.

Actually, Cathedrals make people content, not happy, and not in Fundy - all they do for us now is add 3 gold/turn.

I'm not sure the return makes building Cathedrals worthwhile.

	24-09-2003 22:06									#24
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somehow I think it will not be funny to copile the poll into a report....50/50 sweet...

comon pll vote, drag other ppl in and force them (if necessary) to vote.

Shade

	24-09-2003 22:15									#25
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No more respawns? That helps.

	24-09-2003 22:28									#26
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quote: Actually, Cathedrals make people content, not happy, and not in Fundy - all they do for us now is add 3 gold/turn.

Might be better to wait until we get Mike's Chapel from the Germans

	25-09-2003 01:19									#27
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The only problem is Germans are in Fundi and we have to go through Zulu to get there.

But that wont take long

	26-09-2003 18:58									#28
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orders have been sent/served

Shade

	26-09-2003 23:58									#29
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The Minister of War report has also been sent (seemed like a good place to mention it).

	27-09-2003 08:22									#30
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The report of the Foreign Minister has been sent to President atawa.

This foreign minister looks forward to hearing how next the turning of the seasons goes, nearly as much as the American people look forward to joining our Imperium

* Sparrowhawk Foreign Minister