22-09-2003 22:00									#1
	Which CIV version has underwater cities? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have most of the Civ games and I haven't played in quite a while. I really liked the one where you could build underwater cities and have tubes that connected them to land.
Does anyone know which one that was?

	22-09-2003 22:11									#2
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Call to Power

	22-09-2003 22:35									#3
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Thanks for the quick reply!!!

	23-09-2003 06:09									#4
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Alpha Centauri had something like it... and Test of Time had the levels of civilization so that you could do planets or sea/land/etc.

	23-09-2003 08:25									#5
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DC is correct. ToT had several game modes: Original, Extended Original, Fantasy, Sci-fi, and one other that I can't remember the name of. All except Original had multi-layer maps.

	25-09-2003 07:13									#6
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Call to Power and Call to Power 2 share the same concepts of underwater cities that can be connected with underwater tubes.

	25-09-2003 07:36									#7
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which CIV version sucked total ass? is pretty much the same question.


... FLAME ON!

	25-09-2003 13:03									#8
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civ3 had underwater cities?

	25-09-2003 19:15									#9
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I don't know....I kinda liked it. Not like Civ2, of course. But it was a neat game.

Asmodean

	28-09-2003 01:02									#10
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Uber Krux= I really don't understand why people hate call to power- it isn't really that bad a game? (at least compared to civ III )

	30-09-2003 08:33									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Uber Krux= I really don't understand why people hate call to power- it isn't really that bad a game? (at least compared to civ III )

I thought they were talking about civ3

	02-10-2003 08:24									#12
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Same here

	19-10-2003 07:58									#13
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Despite being an early enthusiast, I quickly hated CTP for several reasons:

- French dubbed voices were about as enthusiastic as Droopy. I felt like falling asleep everytime I heard "building done"

- The AI sucked completely

- The trade system was uninteresting: you basically concentrated resources in one city. One has to admit the trade routes were nicely displayed though.

- You couldn't trade techs before sending a diplomat without being expelled so that he opens an embassy

- Because of the future eras, the historical tech-tree and the historical wonders were more superficial than in Civ.

- Your pretended population explodes at each era change. I didn't feel like I was deserving my population boom.

- but the worst was the tedium with all the "unconventional combatants". I really, really become bored of the lawyers at the end. I'm really glad they don't play such a role in Sid's games.

	27-10-2003 10:42									#14
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Despite being an early enthusiast, I quickly hated civ3 for several reasons:

- Terrain improvements offered no choices in constuction. Basically you filled your city radius with roads/rails and single-level improvements. It would be much nicer if you had several levels of each improvement, and roads were only used for movement, so you would have to choose either movement or economy. The end result was a map that was blighted with roads and railroads.

- Rails give infinite movement, so there is no need for strategic planning in troop placement. Stacks of Doom, anyone.

- No AI respect of trespassing, which isn't so bad except the whammy of a very limited ZOC rule forces a player to set up a unit-intensive WWI-style frontlines to stop the irritation.

- It was more efficient to trade for science, as the AI did so incessently to gain its advantage. There was little need to improve your own science by research. Counter-intuitive.

- You are funneled into completing each tech of an age before proceeding to the next age, so there is little need of long-term goals in tech progression.

- It is much better to raze captured cities - you risk losing the city back to your enemy with an arbitrary flip (which is actually tolerable from a gameplay standpoint), but couple that with the crippling corruption you most likely will have anyhow, and the decision is easy. Hang 'em all.

- Limited government choices creates the same feeling over and over and over and over and over...

- but the worst was the tedium of the worker system to build improvements, as well as the tedium of army movement/attack with a pseudo-grouping command that did not make it any easier to split large stacks for several targeted areas. I'm really glad these do not play a role in the CTP series.

...and over and over and over and over...(still on the government rant)

Different strokes for different folks, I guess...

	28-10-2003 03:24									#15
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I never played CTP all the way through because it didn't tell me when to move my units.

	06-11-2003 02:59									#16
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I don't quite understand that...what do you mean it didn't tell you?

	06-11-2003 06:22									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Uber Krux= I really don't understand why people hate call to power- it isn't really that bad a game? (at least compared to civ III )

Call to Power is pretty damn poor - Call to Power II is a decent enough game worthy of the Civilization name.

	06-11-2003 06:23									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I don't quite understand that...what do you mean it didn't tell you?

He means presumably that he was unable to find the large and extremely useful 'cycle idle units' button on the program's main screen.

	06-11-2003 19:13									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Faboba Call to Power is pretty damn poor - Call to Power II is a decent enough game worthy of the Civilization name.

...both have to be played in modded form though - (and Med Mod CTP1 is actually a very good and balanced game). Some players may get bent all out of shape and not even consider the series because of the fact that it had to be modded, but all I'm interested in is the end result - is it good??? Who cares if fans had to mod it in order to make it good.

Interestingly enough, a player like Vel had a huge bias against the series until he decided to give CTP2 a go. He really liked the concepts within the game that he though made for less tedious gameplay, as well as a deeper tech tree, etc. He noted right off the bat that the AI was weak, so he downloaded one of the major Mods.

And he was promptly floored by what the community was able to do. Do a search in the CTP2 forums for his impressions.

	05-12-2003 04:52									#20
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In my opinion, CTP2 (as modded) is a far better game than its predecessor, CTP. And compared to the Civ 3 and the expansions (leaving out Conquests, because I can’t figure out how its going to actually play once the gpt and corruption issues are worked out) it is comparable, and a very solid game. Just different.

Having played CTP and CTP2 before playing Civ3, I disliked Civ3 a great deal because there were concepts and strategies which I enjoyed in the former two games, and found to be lacking in the latter. But once I was able to put that mode of thinking aside, I came to enjoy that game a great deal.

While for some it is truly a matter of preference, I really do believe – for some people - the inability to switch back and forth and enjoy each game for what it is, is just a matter of inflexibility.

	05-12-2003 05:25									#21
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quote: inflexibility

Inflexibility? What inflexibility?

CTP2 was the last game I bought. Three years ago. Never needed another one.

If everyone were like me that game could have had a seriously depressing effect on sales of the genre.

Feel free to call me a nutter.

	05-12-2003 13:37									#22
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Peter, if I could have been as focused as you and satisifed in exploring just one game to its full potential, I could have saved myself thousands of dollars! However, even while a newly purchased game is barely out of the box, I appear to be looking ahead to that next new game coming on the market...

BTW, Can't CIV III be modded to have sea colonies? I noticed in the editor that you can change water tiles to make them city-buildable...

	06-12-2003 12:30									#23
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keep underwater cities and space cities OUT OF CIV IV

	06-12-2003 12:32									#24
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hey Mr. Fun, having fun in Illinois still?


oh, I disagree with you about the underwater and space cities.

	07-12-2003 10:31									#25
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Simply make it an optional extra.