23-09-2003 04:34									#1
	Teenagers And Young Adults Threaten American Democracy Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've been saying this for years...... It's been going on for the last 20 years or so, the dis-interest in politics by it's citizenry will be the downfall of America.




http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...t.20827869.html


Report: Young adults, teenagers have little interest in government
02:58 PM CDT on Monday, September 22, 2003

Associated Press


Teenagers and young adults are less likely than older adults to value voting or the way government works, and the reason is that the nation is failing to teach the basics for taking part in a democracy, according to a report released Monday.

Though mostly dire, the report found a bit of good news -- that young people who have taken a class in civics place more value on engaging in public life.

"We can't let apathy and ignorance become the status quo," said Utah House Speaker Marty Stephens, president of the National Conference of State Legislatures, one of the groups that helped produce the report.

The report, based on an Internet survey, focused on what it called "DotNets" -- people ages 15 to 26. It was produced by the Representative Democracy in America Project, a collaboration of legislative, academic and civics education groups.

Among the findings:

-- Fifty-four percent of the under-26 group said it is important to pay attention to government and politics; 78 percent of the over-26 group felt that way.

-- Forty-seven percent of the younger group eligible to vote said they cast ballots in all or most elections, compared with 77 percent of the older group.

-- 48 percent of the younger group knew their governor's party, and 40 percent knew which party controlled Congress; in the older group, that rose to 72 percent and 61 percent.

The report found that younger people "do not understand the ideals of citizenship, they are disengaged from the political process, they lack the knowledge necessary for effective self-government, and their appreciation and support of American democracy is limited."

In one example, the survey ranked how young respondents viewed a career in politics: Only farming ranked worse than the prospect of a career as a state lawmaker, member of Congress or president.

Most -- 53 percent -- looked favorably on a career in business, while 44 percent chose music or theater. President? That only drew 16 percent. (Respondents could pick more than one career).

"The generational gaps in civic knowledge, attitudes and participation are greater than they have ever been," said Karl Kurtz of the NCSL and a report co-author. "The baby boomers, the World War II generation and our schools have failed to teach the ideals of citizenship to young people."

The report found, however, that more of the young people took a significantly more active role in democracy -- voting, following the news about government, and believing they were personally responsible for making the world better -- if they had taken a civics class.

In 39 states, a course in civics or government is required to get a high school diploma.

The survey-takers interviewed 632 respondents ages 15 to 26, and 654 respondents over 26. It had a margin of error of 4 percentage points.

The project is a collaboration of the National Conference of State Legislatures, the Center on Congress at Indiana University, and the Center on Civic Education





















My commentary:


I see the following happening....

People gradually loose interest in politics, the rate of which increases exponentially over time.

Increasing global tension causes more politicans to want to trade liberty for security, an uncarring or ignorant populace buys the lies and allows it to happen.

The executive branch gradually gains more power-has been happening for decades and I see no reason for it to stop.

As the executive branch peacefully gains more power over time, congress and the voters gradually loose power. This will be a VERY slow and gradual process, it will be lots of small little things that people who question will be ridiculed for making a mountain out of a mole hill, i.e. the patriot act.

One day, in the not so distant future an increasingly powerfull presidential executive will refuse to step down, and in kahoots with corporate America takes the reigns for life-when this happens it wont be the "MUAHAHAH I rule you all!", it will be entirley peacefull. At first he delays elections because of a war etc.....


Call me a conspiracy nut, call me crazy. I pray to God this dosent happen but I am afraid it will, and I expect to see it in my lifetime.

Last edited by Vesayen on 23-09-2003 at 04:44

	23-09-2003 04:35									#2
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What's the problem? Just means your vote's worth more.

	23-09-2003 05:38									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

They won't necessarily carry their non-voting habits into middle age. Why assume that not caring about politics is something that sticks for life?

Edited for grammar.

Last edited by Sandman on 23-09-2003 at 05:46

	23-09-2003 05:40									#4
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That's generally been true. It's only during periods of upheaval that kids tend to get more into politics.

The flip side, however, is that kids are more likely to get invovled in politics, rather than only casting a vote and sitting on their butts for four years.

The problem is in their defeinition of political particiapation.

	23-09-2003 05:57									#5
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I fail to see the problem.

I don't want more kids doing stupid stuff like voting for a third party candidate.

	23-09-2003 07:10									#6
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Just leave the voting to me.

	23-09-2003 08:06									#7
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quote: The executive branch gradually gains more power-has been happening for decades and I see no reason for it to stop.

You forget the courts, when allied with judicial activism you have the potential for despotism between these two branches.

Although I would have to say that giving more power to even the senate is a problem, I wish... I swear to God I wish thqat we would take up our civil liberties and responsibilities, which is something that we began shirking in the last generation. So don't prophecy that my generation is going to hit the bottom without giving credit to the people who pointed us there.

Personally, I spent the evening complaining about trafic lights and convincing everyone that the very principle is faulty. If you think I'm not going to vote in the next election (As soon as I am able to be registered) you're dead wrong, I'll be voting Anarchist, straight party ticket*

I was thinking about the same thing earlier tonight, during my rants about trafic lights. We the people have become so seperated from the state appaatus that we view it as foreign as sovereign from us), Many people do not see Senators as everyday shmucks, but rather as 'special' people, we deify Willy C. right next to J Lo. and the othe wh*res.

Another thing which may be the cause of this is the fact that We the people don't really see any changes. Democrats and Republicans both run on essentially 'Big Government' platforms (Though at least Republicans still bother to lie to you most of the time) and so nothing new happens. Tax cuts don't even do much for the oters anymore. They want to see the Economy boom, they believe that the officials they elect has something to do with this (They understand neither system). The common man wants prosperity and the only way to promise it to them as a government official is to essentially lie to them.

But you never know, maybe, just maybe, I will lead my generation to a Libertarian awakening, a refreshing of the tree of Liberty** maybe we will return to the pragmatic realizations of the Founder's Ideals.

Maybe we'll invent the ice cream tree too.

(*- to the Federales who are now officially watching me, I am not personally aware of an Anarchy party in the United States, nor would I ever vote for them. You know I love you Big Brother, you and your stinking traffic regulations, wasting my gas.)

(**-Non revolutionary awakening, Big Bro, Non Violent. Revolution is hypocritical in any system that even jokes at having election. Violence is not only unnecesarry, but a sure way to long term defeat in any situation in which it is not totally necesarry)

	23-09-2003 08:16									#8
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Not terribly concerning. People participate more in politics after a little life experience teaches them how it can affect them. The fact that people don't want to become a lawmake or president isn't terribly surprising. Politicians are generally seen as scum, and anybody who really wants the presidency probably shouldn't be allowed to have it.

As for Vesayen's scenario, I highly doubt it is even possible. The legislative branch is more than capable of checking the power of the executive branch, as is the judicial branch. Even assuming that these officials and the American public became so apathetic as to let the executive branch gain so much power, they would not allow him to stay in office. In order to stay in office, he would need the military on his side. Problem is that the military is a volunteer force, taken from the general population. Most are very much everyday people, with similar concerns to the rest of us. I don't think they'd stand for it.

	23-09-2003 08:24									#9
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If people don't want to care about politics to become interested in it, I would rather they not vote then cast an uniformed vote for a party.

	23-09-2003 09:04									#10
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Some guy wrote a book called "Friendly Fascism" about this. Published about 20 years ago.

	23-09-2003 09:22									#11
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Well, republics always eat themselves. Hopefully I will still be alive at the "bread and circuses" stage. that should be some nice shows.

	23-09-2003 09:37									#12
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, republics always eat themselves. Hopefully I will still be alive at the "bread and circuses" stage. that should be some nice shows.

Actually, the shows suck, but these gourmet muffins are excellent.

	23-09-2003 12:29									#13
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the old voters of today were yesterdays young non-voters. Voter participation is generally down due to people being content with their country.

And what kind of point was the article trying to make? That civics should be in the other 11 states diploma?

	23-09-2003 12:56									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Snotty the old voters of today were yesterdays young non-voters. Voter participation is generally down due to people being content with their country.

Voting does indeed skew old (and wealthy, and educated), but not because young people are content. In general, the government plays only a small role in young people's lives in the US. For teenagers and twentysomethings, much of life involves following orders at work, cashing the paycheck, and buying stuff; the role of the government in this, if it plays one at all, is relatively obscure to them (once they get over the shock of payroll deductions). It's only later -- as they have kids, buy property, start thinking about retirement, work in a position of responsibility, etc. -- that the government seems "real" and voting kicks in. Even then, though, voting skews educated and wealthy, since those groups tend to have more faith in their ability to change their circumstances than do the poor and uneducated.

	23-09-2003 13:18									#15
	Re: Teenagers And Young Adults Threaten American Democracy Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Report: Young adults, teenagers have little interest in government

What else is new?

Bill Vaughan (american jourmalist) said it sometime in the 60s:
" A citizen of America will cross the ocean to fight for democracy, but won't cross the street to vote in a national election."

	23-09-2003 14:18									#16
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Yeah, it's the teenagers fault that they aren't interested in politics. Nothing to do with the politicians.

	23-09-2003 14:44									#17
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Even Socrates thought that the young would ruin everything as they did not posess the qualities of earlier generations. Maybe they'll get more interested with the years. Just look at your president. On the other hand, if you look at the level of election paricipitation of americans, this shouldn't come as a complete suprise.

P.S.: This is based on a internet survey, so the figures are probably crap.

	23-09-2003 15:26									#18
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There is a vicious circle here, of course: the young don't vote, so politicians tailor their messages/pandering to the people who do vote, so the young are alienated by messages/pandering that have nothing to do with them, so the young don't vote...lather, rinse, repeat.

	23-09-2003 15:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Hopefully I will still be alive at the "bread and circuses" stage. that should be some nice shows.

Unfortunaly you're already living it. It's called Ricky Lake and Jerry Springer-show. Wild animals attack each other while the plebeian crowd screams for blood.

	23-09-2003 17:52									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Voting does indeed skew old (and wealthy, and educated), but not because young people are content. In general, the government plays only a small role in young people's lives in the US....

Other than the school they're attending, the police they're avoiding, the drivers license they're lusting for, the judge that's granting 1/2 of American kids to one set of custody or another, and the social services worker who decided/needed to take an interest in their life?

Only a Leftist could look around today's America and see no government.

Kids see government as an authority. American kids, by and large, are taught to distrust authority. American kids are also largely spoiled and see themselves as the center of the Universe (myself included, and more than likely, Sophie as well.) Neither one of these attitudes makes for good voters - but Americans do make effective activists when we want to.

	23-09-2003 18:08									#21
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quote: Well, republics always eat themselves. Hopefully I will still be alive at the "bread and circuses" stage. that should be some nice shows.

bread: all the luxuries now present.
circuses: anything on tv.

i hope i die during the "bread and circuses" stage, because what comes after is nothing but pillaging, raping, and the lamentations of women.

	23-09-2003 18:11									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

as for political participation in politics,

quote: If people don't want to care about politics to become interested in it, I would rather they not vote then cast an uniformed vote for a party.

sums up what i feel about it. it's depressing that here we get barely above a what, 75% participation rate in elections, and undemocratic nations like nkorea hold "free elections" with turnout over 100%. do people not vote unless it's at the point of a gun?

in any case, i think party politics had a good deal to do with this, too. after all, you can't get a politically disillusioned youth without politicians who do nothing but bring shame upon themselves, the nation, and its citizenry--as every single politician today, particularly the party leaders, have done.

	23-09-2003 18:16									#23
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"Teenagers And Young Adults Threaten American Democracy

I've been saying this for years...... It's been going on for the last 20 years or so, the dis-interest in politics by it's citizenry will be the downfall of America."

I think disinterest by the largely foolish callow youth is a good think. Young adult screw up most everything they do, it is good that they stay out of politics. Do you want goverment rund the way an 18 year drives his car or runs his life, I do not think so.

	23-09-2003 23:50									#24
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Other than the school they're attending, the police they're avoiding, the drivers license they're lusting for, the judge that's granting 1/2 of American kids to one set of custody or another, and the social services worker who decided/needed to take an interest in their life? Only a Leftist could look around today's America and see no government.

Be fair, John; I was talking about how young people perceive the world, not how I -- a decrepit old fart -- see it. But in my experience teaching 18-25 year olds, they rarely think of school and policing as aspects of electoral government (which, yes, is not very bright of them); school and the police tend to be immediate, authoritarian institutions, whereas elected officials are some romote guys in suits who don't have anything to do with anything. I think it takes them a while to put two and two together.

	24-09-2003 00:06									#25
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quote: One day, in the not so distant future an increasingly powerfull presidential executive will refuse to step down, and in kahoots with corporate America takes the reigns for life-when this happens it wont be the "MUAHAHAH I rule you all!", it will be entirley peacefull. At first he delays elections because of a war etc.....

Well, if this happens, lets just hope it is me that is presidente at the time mwahahahaha...

Good.