23-09-2003 18:16									#1
	Stefu's VERY OWN North American Diplomacy 1870 Map Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

That's right, VERY OWN. It's MINE, MINE, HAHAHAHA! (You can play it too.)

Anyway, it's been bubbling under for some time, and the Nostalgia Dip again reawakened the desire to have a Dip map that has to do with North America. Here is the 0.00001 Beta version for you to critique. Basically, the idea is that the year is 1870 and everything's gone to **** - California and Texas never joined the United States, Confederacy is independent and the border states aren't really controlled by anyone, the chaos caused by post-Civil War Canadian invasion by US has left none the wiser but has caused New England and Quebec to leave their motherlands too, et cetera et cetera.

Some possible points of contention:

- The city names are mostly from modern world - chances are at least some cities either weren't important or even didn't exist in real life in 1870. Possible replacement names?

- Confederacy - too weak? They are pretty much guaranteed to get Kentucky, but they won't be part of the supply center bonanza in the West.

- Likewise, is Mexico too weak? They're guaranteed N. Mex, but what about afterwards?

- United States - too strong? They got many plum centers ready for picking. OTOH, they're kind of in the center of the map.

- Should Barbados be British after all, or does it unnecessarily weaken Confederacy and Mexico? Also, more centers in Cuba?

- The West - should this or that SC be here, there or anywhere?

- The sea zones are bit of a slapdick affair, really - particularily namewise, but also otherwise. I'm not a big sea man (HA HA HA SEMEN!) - does someone have suggestions for improvements?

- The Great Lakes - I'm not sure about what to do with the buggers, really. Passable? Impassable? (Currently impassable.) What about connection to the Atlantic?

- Anything else on your mind, really.

The powers are:

United States: F NeY, A Det, A Chi
Confederacy: F Bir, A NeO, A Vir
Texas: A Dal, F Hou, A ElP
California: A Eur, A SaF, A LoA
Britain: F Van, A Thu, A Tor, F Bar
Quebec: A Mon, A Que, F SeI
Mexico: A Son, A Chi, F Mat

Barbados is a supply center of Britain, yes. Note that fleets can travel from there to Bir - Confederacy and Britain should both take note.

Of course, if someone wants to play a beta-test game, be my guest.

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	23-09-2003 20:40									#2
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Turkey? Italy? Germany? and Austria? If you edit, finish the editing togheter with the nations names

	23-09-2003 20:51									#3
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Does Chicago connect with Ontario or not? It doesn't seem to, but...

Mexico does seem a bit weak. Maybe make Son neutral, and create a new territory between Son & Sie that'd be a Mexican home SC? That'd separate the Mexicans from the Californians a bit, and make it easier for California to work with Mexico against Texas (or run north against Britain). Of course, then Texas kind of gets screwed.

I'm not sure you can work this in, but a good rule of variant design is that each power should have (at least) 3 neighbors to diplome with. If they only have 2, then things tend to turn repetitive. As it stands, Mexico & Quebec break this rule at the moment. Both willl either be turned on by both their neighbors, wary of their corner position, or will get an alliance with one and rule.

	23-09-2003 22:20									#4
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Mexico is screwed. They aren't guaranteed New Mex because either California or Texas can steal a center from behind them on the same move.

Bahamas (not Barbados, that's much further South), should be nuetral and not a supply center.

Get rid of Thunder Bay and Vancouver have Canada be Montreal, Quebec, Toronto, and Ontario.

Toss Quebec as a power.

Make the NorthWest Company (or was it McKenzie?) instead, Vancouver, Saskatchewan, and Oregon. We'll assume the US lost the struggle over Oregon.

	24-09-2003 10:46									#5
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Mexico has three neighbours, kind of - they're in play for Caribbean with the Confederacy. I've been thinking of extending the map a bit south, adding more Caribbean centers and making Guatemala a neutral SC - and reordering Mexican SCs a bit, of course.

I don't know about scrapping Quebec. I know it's a bit cornered, but are there any good replacement powers? I don't really like the NorthWest Company idea.

One possibility is making Canada and Britain separate powers. Britain would have Van, New and NeB (and Bermuda?)

quote: Mexico is screwed. They aren't guaranteed New Mex because either California or Texas can steal a center from behind them on the same move.

Actually not - California can't take Sonora, because LoA unit is a fleet. Or at least it was supposed to be a fleet.

	25-09-2003 06:19									#6
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Yeah, but Mexico will attack the Confederacy only if they've just raided Santa Anna's secret stash.

I think Britain should keep Bermudas, myself, they did own them and it makes things more interesting for the CSA.

I don't think you should have any fleets pre-built in the west coast, myself. As it stands, California is not believing for a second that Britain will ignore it, since that fleet has nowhere else to go. Fleets out there are kinda useless anyway. If you want to keep 'em, unrealisitc as it may be, you should have a canal zone at the bottom of the map, near Panama (or possibly just extend the map southward a bit and give Mexico a neutral SC to grab....

Hmm, I think it'll actually be easier just to draw it out. One moment.

	25-09-2003 06:39									#7
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This only addresses the Southern situation:
Mexico starts with A Tec, F Mat, & A Son.
California with all Armies.

(Yes I realize that it was called Mexico City by now. Since we're being anachronistic elsewhere, I get to be too).

The new province is Gasden, because of the Gasden purchase. This should separate Mexico a bit and make demilitarizing with California a smidgen easier, but should encourage lots of brawling since there are now 3 neutral SCs right next door to each other. This may make California too good, since Texas is stuck with a fleet and may be comitted against the CSA. I didn't counterbalance that yet though due to the uncertain situation in the north, of what powers there are and where.

Yucutan makes fleets in the Gulf more useful, now that there's more than just Havana & enemy home SCs to go after. Mexico can even send its army to go collect it and then convoy it out later with its fleet.

Your call, of course.

Edit: Now that I think about it, since coasts aren't an issue anymore (Baja California is one coast as I drew, unlike the old dual-coasted Los Angeles), you probably could stick a fleet back in Los Angeles again. It would help balance California's current imbalance. Problem is, that fleet insures that California must always attack Mexico, which is boring. Better to somehow strengthen the north and fling more threats and other gropers for the West from that direction to balance the crazy Calis.

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Last edited by SnowFire on 25-09-2003 at 06:48

	25-09-2003 07:49									#8
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Why not make it 8 player and just throw the Mormons in for good measure? It would even up things in the west, but I suppose an even number is not a particularly good idea.

	25-09-2003 07:53									#9
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Make Arkansas a supply center

	26-09-2003 00:21									#10
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for 1870 this is horribly inaccurate...

why not make it 1845 or 1860, make the west coast part of the US and Oregon part of British Canada (if 1845), keep Texas its own 'country' as well as the CSA and Mexico, and expand the US to the largest power but also the one nations will want to go after the most (historical accuracy considering the South nearly did get Europowers to join them against the US)

US: Phi, Nyc, Chi, Det, Sfr
Texas: Dal, Elp, Hou
Confederacy: Atl, Neo, Rcm
Mexico: Maz, Mxc, Mer
etc.

refer to the 1860 Imperial map for help

	26-09-2003 03:59									#11
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when you finish, i'd be up for playing.

	26-09-2003 13:08									#12
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Okay, reworked map. Quebec scrapped. Canada is now separate from Britain, which owns centers all around the map. Map extended southwards, Mexico reworked. Caribbean reworked. Haiti and Guatemala are SCs, and so are (now) Man and NeB, from which Nova Scotia has been separated to become a British SC. Dakota's border reworked slightly to make Man a guaranteed Canadian SC. Oh, and there's a channel from S. Carib to S. Atlantic.

Units:

Canada: A Tor, A Mon, F Que
Britain: F Van, F New, A Nov, F Bah
Mexico: A Son, A Gua, F Mex
Others: As they were (well, there is a F in LoA)

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	27-09-2003 01:36									#13
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why is Washington DC in Delaware? I also think Texas is too strong, and the US too weak.

	27-09-2003 02:33									#14
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"Che was" what?

	01-10-2003 19:40									#15
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texas isn't too strong, not with that many neighbors. looks like of like an oversided austria

But yeah the US looks a little weak with Canada not having all that many options besides attacking it, at least in the long run. Maybe shift a Canuck SC from Tor to Ont to relieve US/Canuck pressures a bit...