23-09-2003 19:37									#1
	Chavez, Venezuala, and the Opposition Enter the AD-FREE zone

Well, August has come and gone and now that the period when they are constitutionally allowed to seek a recall of Chavez, the opposition in Venezuala has failed to do so. I thought Chavez was so unpopular, that he was leading the country to ruin, that he was opposed by the vast majority of Venezuelans.

So where is the opposition now that they have an opportunity to put their claims to the test? Could it be they were FOS? That they never had all that much support? Or did they blow their wad too early, and their force is spent?

So what's the story?

	23-09-2003 19:44									#2
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I'll do my best Fez...

CHAVEZ THE DIRYT COMMIE I THROW HIM OUT OF A HELICOPTER AND YOU TOO CHE!!!!

	23-09-2003 22:07									#3
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Consider the fact that Chavez managed to declare "invalid" all the opposition's signatures for the referendum just because they were collected before the recall was constitutionally allowed, so now they're going to gather them all again. Just a way to burn time, I guess.

I'm still undecided as to how good or bad Chavez will be in the long term for Venezuela (as being totally pro-/anti-Chavez usually hinges just on political bias), but hey, if the opposition wants to try and recall him, let them.

If they fail, provided that the results have been overseen by an international agency to prevent fraud so that they aren't questioned, then that should be the end of it, I suppose.

	23-09-2003 22:15									#4
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Am I to understand you support him because he's so socialist despite acting contrary to the will of the people?

	23-09-2003 22:17									#5
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Typical Latinamerican thugocracy. Once you know who the opposition leadership is, bribe them, blackmail them, intimidate them, kill them or threaten to kill their kids, whatever it takes to derail them, according to your preferred style.

The flip side of that is you can give your "supporters" (anybody you round up) a free breakfast and a bus ride to the polling station, provided of course that they vote right.

When you have unions favored by the government (because the bosses are wired in and paid off), then they make sure their members vote right too.

Elections south of the Rio Grande, all the way down to Punta Arenas, are even more for show than they are north of the Rio Grande.

	23-09-2003 22:18									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Is that actually possible?

	23-09-2003 23:03									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It takes a hell of a lot of work, but yes.

	24-09-2003 00:11									#8
	Suffering from ads?

Given that the opposition tried to oust him in a coup, I think being sneaky about the referendum really doesn't matter.

	24-09-2003 04:13									#9
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How about the reforms that Chavez promised the poor? Did he deliver?

Or is he no better than Lula, that double-speaking s.o.b.?

	24-09-2003 04:15									#10
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quote: Originally posted by axi How about the reforms that Chavez promised the poor? Did he deliver? Or is he no better than Lula, that double-speaking s.o.b.?

Well the papers are reporting that he's making progress. I suppose I tend to believe Chavez in this dispute since the other lot were proved to be lying sacks of ****.

	24-09-2003 04:21									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It depends on what you consider progress, and how loyal you are in delivering votes and "counterdemonstrations."

No matter what the political spin of a leader, he has to take care of some people.

	24-09-2003 04:27									#12
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Yeah, but did you see that documentary where the film crew got caught in the middle of the coup and got the whole thing on tape? They proved beyond all doubt that the opposition were a pack of liars.

Chavez may well be too, but I can only be sure that the opposition are full of ****.

	24-09-2003 04:32									#13
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The entire opposition everywhere within the country was all within audiovisual range of a single film crew?

	24-09-2003 04:39									#14
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The entire opposition everywhere within the country was all within audiovisual range of a single film crew?

No. Don't be ridiculous.

But among other things the opposition television stations (i.e. all of them, apart from State TV) ran a story that Chavez supporters had opened fire on peaceful demonstrators. They showed film of what appeared to be Chavez supporters shooting at unarmed demonstrators as proof of these claims. Turns out someone else was filming and they showed that no such thing happened - the Chavez supporters were shooting at snipers who had started shooting at them from the roofs of nearby buildings (no one knows who they were) and the footage of the other demonstrators was edited in. When the camera panned to where the unarmed, peaceful victims were supposed to be being shot, there was nobody there.

This was the opposition's "big story" and their justification for the coup. A wholly fictional event as it turned out.

I don't know what the film was called. They show it on CBC occasionally.

	24-09-2003 04:52									#15
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A single edited fabricated story to "justify" a coup does not count for much dishonesty by the standards of Latinamerican (or for that matter, Norteamericano ) politics.

	24-09-2003 05:30									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat A single edited fabricated story to "justify" a coup does not count for much dishonesty by the standards of Latinamerican (or for that matter, Norteamericano ) politics.

That wasn't all of it, just the bit I remember the best.

I wish I could remember the name of the film. It was an eye opener. Perhaps someone else has seen it.

	24-09-2003 06:40									#17
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I have no doubt both sides are full of mierda. They all are down this way, every last one. The difference is that people all pretty much recognize that fact, unlike the US where you get the occasional odd type that thinks there's something functional in the US political system.

	24-09-2003 06:42									#18
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Che is full of kaka. He eats too much toast at the Heartland Cafe. It is all pop commie stuff. Come the revolution, they will slaughter the Mensheviks like him.

	24-09-2003 06:54									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Speaking of "coups", funny how nobody here remembers that Chavez had his hand in one of those previously too...in 1992. Not even a decade before his election.

Of course, since he's been elected, he's forgiven and has a clean slate. But those that tried to coup him? Oh no, they're all a bunch of ******* that don't deserve to ever be "pardoned" like he was.

Last edited by JCG on 24-09-2003 at 07:05

	24-09-2003 07:04									#20
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And about the film...well, at least part of it was valid enough to charge those in it for something like open gun firing/possession and another minor charge that I can't remember, even if the bigger charges were dismissed by the court. This was announced rather recently too.

Strange how they were apparently firing *downwards* though...you'd think that snipers would usually be *above*.

Still, as has been said before, this whole business is rather shady, both on the opposition's and on the government's side. Better to wait it all out and see if the full truth ever comes up (doubtful).