23-09-2003 20:47									#1
	United States is about to cut the number of employment visas Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

h1-b visa quota reduced

H1-b visa quotas have been maxed out for several years and have gotten bipartisan support. (I've never understood why Democrats are for maxed quotas). This is the first time since mid 90's that the quota will be reduced - and substantially- to 65k. This is probably politically motivated with the election year coming up. They'll be maxed out again before long and outsourcing will be full speed ahead.

My favorite quote from the article:

quote: But Patrick Duffy, Human Resources Attorney for Intel Corporation, said finding the best-educated engineering talent from around the world was critical to his company's future. "We expect that we will continue to sponsor H-1B employees in the future for the simple reason that we cannot find enough U.S. workers with the advanced education, skills, and expertise we need," he said.

Boo Hoo. Hmm... He left one word out at the end of the sentence - "NOW". Thats all corporations care about. If his company took the money it paid to sponsor H1-b candidates and used it to develop U.S. bred talent in house, they would have access to US workers with comparable level of education - AND better communication skills AND there would be less technical resource loss because of increase in employee morale . As far as skills and expertise, how do you expect US workers to acquire these when upward advancement opportunities are minimized by offshore development?

	23-09-2003 20:55									#2
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Not enough qualified domestic candidates means companies need to look abroad for talent?

Cut the visas -> cut the overseas talent...

I hope at the same time they are doing something to bridge the skills shortage domestically or a lot of companies are suddenly going to be hit by losing a lot of crucial overseas staff. Surely a gradual reduction would be more sensible?

Also what can companies do if the US as a country isn't providing enough people with "Advanced Education"?

Another protectionist measure, can't believe this Gov't even pretends to be pro Free Trade.

	23-09-2003 20:56									#3
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the us is providing plenty with high quality advanced education.

the students just don't tend to be american; they're often immigrants.

	23-09-2003 20:57									#4
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All this will do is accelerate out-sourcing to overseas.

	23-09-2003 20:58									#5
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That is a bunch of crap. There are a lot of workers in the United States how are qualified in IT and other high education flieds. The problem is they want lots of money and if companies can get workers to come into the country they can pay them less. That is why they do it.

	23-09-2003 20:59									#6
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quote: the students just don't tend to be american; they're often immigrants

That has nothing to do with the post though, which has to do with work visas and not educational visas. Nationalized citizens who came here are education visas are some of the smartest and most enthusiastic workers I know It is also a shame that we are going to be barring more immigrants from coming here and taking jobs away from lazy good for nothing people who would rather waste their education or not even bother getting one. This is definitly a shame and we will suffer because of it.

	23-09-2003 21:00									#7
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I find this policy silly. H1-Bs are normally talented, educated people. It's cutting off a major port of the brain drain that benefits us.

	23-09-2003 21:00									#8
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But there's massive unemployment in the US at the moment, surely that should lead to a drop in expected salaries?

	23-09-2003 21:02									#9
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Maybe in the short term. But it is more important that we get all the smart and educated people in the door as we can. Over the long run, it will be hugely beneficial to us.

And there's not massive unemployment in the US. It's modest.

	23-09-2003 21:02									#10
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quote: But there's massive unemployment in the US at the moment, surely that should lead to a drop in expected salaries?

The US citiizens demanding higher salaries isn't just a current phenomenon...

	23-09-2003 21:03									#11
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Good. This will keep those foreigners from taking my job.

	23-09-2003 21:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Not enough qualified domestic candidates means companies need to look abroad for talent?

There's tons of domestic talent however Americans generally want more money then the third worlders do so it's cheaper for companies to bring in engineers from India or China then it is to actually hire & train locals. You see right now we have litterally a sea of new college graduates who can't find jobs but the Intels would all rather hire someone from India who has 10 years experience and then pay him less then the new graduate would demand. It's time we understand Intel can only do this because we let them.


The government gives handouts and tax brakes to these companies by the bushel so now it's time for them to return the favor by hiring local people instead of importing cheap foreign labor.

	23-09-2003 21:04									#13
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH But there's massive unemployment in the US at the moment, surely that should lead to a drop in expected salaries?

A lot of these people come from India, a country that is not doing so well. So when you offer them salary that is lower then what most workers would expect, they will take it because it seems to be a lot of money to them.

	23-09-2003 21:07									#14
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Maybe in the short term. But it is more important that we get all the smart and educated people in the door as we can. Over the long run, it will be hugely beneficial to us.

Yep, same here.

	23-09-2003 21:24									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Good. This will keep those foreigners from taking my job.

Uhm, aren't you a foreigner, gaijin?

	23-09-2003 21:26									#16
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I would much rather compete against an H1-B in my country than against the same candidate in his own country. He get's a lot more money here than there.

	23-09-2003 21:27									#17
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quote: Uhm, aren't you a foreigner, gaijin?

I see your irony detector is still functioning properly.

	23-09-2003 21:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin There's tons of domestic talent however Americans generally want more money then the third worlders do so it's cheaper for companies to bring in engineers from India or China then it is to actually hire & train locals. You see right now we have litterally a sea of new college graduates who can't find jobs but the Intels would all rather hire someone from India who has 10 years experience and then pay him less then the new graduate would demand. It's time we understand Intel can only do this because we let them. The government gives handouts and tax bracks to these companies by the bushel so now it's time for them to return the favor by hiring local people instead of importing cheap foreign labor.

I agree.

	23-09-2003 21:29									#19
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Great. That means that all that money we spend on educating people won't go to the american economy.

	23-09-2003 21:29									#20
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i get a h2b visa. i'm unskilled apparently

	23-09-2003 21:33									#21
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Chem. Engineering peon, get in line.

	23-09-2003 21:38									#22
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While I sympathize with the general idea of stopping the loss of tech jobs to foreign workers, I agree with Che. This trend will accelerate the loss of jobs from America overseas if this move is done in isolations by decreasing the amount of talent in the US labour market relative to the overseas market.

	23-09-2003 22:25									#23
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It's also a scam, politically. H visas just apply to US companies employing foreign workers.

Nothing in this bill prevents a foreign "company" (say, chartered last week in Bermuda) from transferring it's own employees (say, those who last week lost H-1b visas) to work in their new US offices (a converted trailer), under L-1 visas, to work for the foreign company's client (the former employer of the H-1b worker's that lost their visas). And of course, for purposes of coordination, the foreign L-1 visa workers have to meet with their company's client for coordination purposes, say... all day, every day. But they don't work there, they just have "coordination meetings." They don't have office space there, they just use some empty desks.

Etc.

The whole US visa class system is BS.

	23-09-2003 22:33									#24
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's also a scam, politically. H visas just apply to US companies employing foreign workers. Nothing in this bill prevents a foreign "company" (say, chartered last week in Bermuda) from transferring it's own employees (say, those who last week lost H-1b visas) to work in their new US offices (a converted trailer), under L-1 visas, to work for the foreign company's client (the former employer of the H-1b worker's that lost their visas). And of course, for purposes of coordination, the foreign L-1 visa workers have to meet with their company's client for coordination purposes, say... all day, every day. But they don't work there, they just have "coordination meetings." They don't have office space there, they just use some empty desks. Etc. The whole US visa class system is BS.

What a stupid thing, I hate this. I worry when I get out of school how my chances will fair finding a job as a computer programmer.

	23-09-2003 23:01									#25
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Despite all the talk about outsourcing, there are still plenty of jobs in the US market.

The real trick is finding the particular skill set that will be in demand when you hit the market.

	23-09-2003 23:16									#26
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Oracle, Oracle, Oracle

	23-09-2003 23:25									#27
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Oracle, Oracle, Oracle

Well I am going to learn as much as I can in the nest 2 years I have to go. Most of what I have been doing so far is just general ed classes.

	23-09-2003 23:56									#28
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Oracle, Oracle, Oracle

**** Oracle, it's over priced, overrated, underperforming crap.

	23-09-2003 23:58									#29
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat **** Oracle, it's over priced, overrated, underperforming crap.

Maybe so, but it's what employers are asking for. Me mum, who is a recruiter, keeps telling me to learn some Oracle and become a dba. Everyone wants Oracle programmers. Like anyone with my scattered brain could be a dba.

	24-09-2003 00:03									#30
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dba= database analyst?