24-09-2003 09:17									#31
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quote: I have talked with many homosexual men who are older than me, who have been married and divorced, or are still married. Guess what all of those guys I talked with said in one form or another . . . they were gay before they ever married.

Of course that is what they say now .

If they were truely gay for the entirety of their lives, they sure were sexually attracted to the other gender too damn much .

	24-09-2003 09:18									#32
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I can't even debate this with you guys, until you understand how societal norms and conventions can pressure people into conforming.

Gays who were adults before the 1970's were conforming to societal norms and conventions, since gays were not nearly as liberated as they are now.

	24-09-2003 09:20									#33
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Would you maintain that a person, at birth, gets one of three traits- either heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual?

	24-09-2003 09:20									#34
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quote: Gays who were adults before the 1970's were conforming to societal norms and conventions, since gays were not nearly as liberated as they are now.

If they had kids they obviously were somewhat sexually attracted to women, don't you think? Perhaps they were 'conforming', but if homosexuality IS genetic, getting up for sex with someone of an opposite gender would be very difficult, would it not?

	24-09-2003 09:21									#35
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I no longer believe in the genetic theory with 100% certainty.

But I do believe that no matter how sexual orientation develops, it does not develop from a choice.

	24-09-2003 09:23									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Gays who were adults before the 1970's were conforming to societal norms and conventions, since gays were not nearly as liberated as they are now. If they had kids they obviously were somewhat sexually attracted to women, don't you think? Perhaps they were 'conforming', but if homosexuality IS genetic, getting up for sex with someone of an opposite gender would be very difficult, would it not?

If you have not come out to yourself while still married, you continue to sleep with your spouse, but for some reason that you are not aware of yet, you are not attracted to him/her.

Yet, as a man, you can still stick your manhood in and out just to get your wife to stop whining about how she feels deprived.

	24-09-2003 09:23									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior Would you maintain that a person, at birth, gets one of three traits- either heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual?

I think he would. I'd disagree. I think all people are born with all orientations (homo and hetero sexuality). We end up one place or the other on the scale. A part of me does not think that homosexuals do not have ANY hetero in them, because that's the biological need, to reproduce. Every 'gay' animal that you hear of will have sex with opposite genders because of the biological hardwiring to continue the species.

Of course, that also means that all heterosexuals have at least some homosexuality in them. It may be very small or very large. It depends.

	24-09-2003 09:24									#38
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Read my above post Imran -- I no longer believe in the genetic theory.

	24-09-2003 09:25									#39
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quote: If you have not come out to yourself while still married, you continue to sleep with your spouse, but for some reason that you are not aware of yet, you are not attracted to him/her. Yet, as a man, you can still stick your manhood in and out just to get your wife to stop whining about how she feels deprived.

Come on! Getting it up when you aren't attracted to someone in the slightest? Perhaps if you close your eyes and think of the Village people while she is going down on you... but then why did she marry you in the first place? You had to be attracted to her somewhat, or else that lack of interest would have caused the woman to walk away.

	24-09-2003 09:26									#40
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quote: Perhaps if you close your eyes and think of the Village people while she is going down on you...

	24-09-2003 09:26									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If you have not come out to yourself while still married, you continue to sleep with your spouse, but for some reason that you are not aware of yet, you are not attracted to him/her. Yet, as a man, you can still stick your manhood in and out just to get your wife to stop whining about how she feels deprived. Come on! Getting it up when you aren't attracted to someone in the slightest? Perhaps if you close your eyes and think of the Village people while she is going down on you... but then why did she marry you in the first place? You had to be attracted to her somewhat, or else that lack of interest would have caused the woman to walk away.

You can have sex with someone you're not really attracted to.

It's not something you enjoy doing, and you see it as a chore, to get it over with, so to speak.

How do you think prostitutes make a living? Not very many of their clients are attractive, are they??

	24-09-2003 09:28									#42
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I no longer believe in the genetic theory with 100% certainty. But I do believe that no matter how sexual orientation develops, it does not develop from a choice.

Once someone develops into one of the three molds, can they develop into a different one? Or is there an age where the person reaches a "point of no return?" eg most people seem to settle into one sexuality by the age of 35.


Then that begs the question- what would happen if we stuck MrFun on an island from birth, and the island only contained women? Would he be attracted to them?

If he was, what would happen if then we brought him into the real world at the age of 40. Would he immediately take to men?

	24-09-2003 09:28									#43
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quote: You can have sex with someone you're not really attracted to. It's not something you enjoy doing, and you see it as a chore, to get it over with, so to speak.

If you just have sex or make out just to 'get it over with', then why did the woman just not dump you when she realized you didn't care and that it took you a long time to get hard when you wanted to play? That's absurd.

quote: How do you think prostitutes make a living? Not very many of their clients are attractive, are they??

Prostitutes have to 'get it up'? There aren't many male prostitutes at all you know?

	24-09-2003 09:29									#44
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It's 11:30 PM -- I have work tomorrow morning.


We shall resume this tomorrow, I'm sure.

	24-09-2003 09:31									#45
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Good night.

	24-09-2003 11:05									#46
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quote: Being concerned with motes in other people's eyes, whilst being unconcerned with great oaken beams in their own. Are their own lives really so good, so perfect, that they can spend time 'redeeming' others?

molly bloom:

You misunderstand. We cannot redeem people because we are all sinful people. Only Christ can redeem people. All we can do is to call people to the need to repent.

We are not asking for these people to model other Christians, but instead, to model Christ, building on a rock rather than on sand.

	24-09-2003 11:13									#47
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Dr. Drew & Adam from Love Line, Dr. Laura, & Dr. Ruth have all said in their experience most gays tend to be "made" and not born. That means most of the gays they talked to tend to have a formative experience where their wires got crossed and they are not born being gay. I don't know if these people are right but they do have decades of experience in the business.

	24-09-2003 11:14									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior You think that people think they're hot?

wtf? those are all hot. damn eunich.

	24-09-2003 11:24									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior I have the same end opinion on most gay-related issues as you. I just think that a lot of your reasoning is faulty.

that is because they were denying their nature

there are people who are straight, but think they are homosexual for a while and engage in homosexual relationships (this is far more prevalent among women actually)

there are also people who are in denial about their gayness and try to be straight but find it ultimately frutile

these are actually arguments that it is highly internal (and likely partially genitic)

Jon Miller

	24-09-2003 11:40									#50
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also the fact that there are animal homosexuals, when it doesn't make sense from anything obviously environmental or social suggests that it is something hormonal and/or genetic that is easily triggered

Jon Miller

	24-09-2003 11:42									#51
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quote: there are people who are straight, but think they are homosexual for a while and engage in homosexual relationships (this is far more prevalent among women actually)

Thank god for small favors.


edit: Emphasis added to quote.

	24-09-2003 11:43									#52
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I don't view it as healthy just like I don't view gay people being in denial about their homosexuality as being healthy

Jon Miller

	24-09-2003 11:46									#53
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How can two hot girls going at it not be healthy?

	24-09-2003 11:47									#54
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quote: How can two hot girls going at it not be healthy?

Well, in certain cases it may spur activities that could result in blindness.

	24-09-2003 18:04									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui If you just have sex or make out just to 'get it over with', then why did the woman just not dump you when she realized you didn't care and that it took you a long time to get hard when you wanted to play? That's absurd. Prostitutes have to 'get it up'? There aren't many male prostitutes at all you know?

One, if you know how the real world works, you will realize that many people who have not divorced yet, stay married for all the wrong reasons in spite of the serious, unresolved problems -- one of which, is their sex life.

Secondly, yes, there are many more female prostitutes than male prostitutes, but wouldn't it still be difficult for a female prostitute to "take it" from a client that she finds unattractive? Yet she will endure it like a chore, in order to make money.

	24-09-2003 18:06									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior Once someone develops into one of the three molds, can they develop into a different one? Or is there an age where the person reaches a "point of no return?" eg most people seem to settle into one sexuality by the age of 35. Then that begs the question- what would happen if we stuck MrFun on an island from birth, and the island only contained women? Would he be attracted to them? If he was, what would happen if then we brought him into the real world at the age of 40. Would he immediately take to men?

Sexual orientation is more complicated than that -- you don't start developing it at one specific age or age range.


Secondly, let's put me in a more real, though still hypothetical situation -- if you were to lock me in a woman's locker room with many attractive women in there with me, I would not be inclined in the slightest to have anything to do with them.

	24-09-2003 18:33									#57
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That's the same way I would feel if I was locked in a room with Hillary Clinton.

	24-09-2003 18:54									#58
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didn't the most vocal case of "homosexual rehabilitation" in the us admit to have had homosexual relations after his supposed "cure"?

	24-09-2003 18:58									#59
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Yes, I think he did. Of course some confirmed gays backslide as well.

	24-09-2003 20:56									#60
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Actually Lincoln -- I doubt there are any closeted heterosexuals, since social norms and conventions obviously embrace heterosexuality.