24-09-2003 05:34									#1
	When does your first war begin ? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

About 3or4 years ago , after I was bored with civ2 , I begin to play Age of Empire .

At first , I always attacked AI after I upgraded to the 4th age and researched most technologies . By and by , I found I should attack AI just when I entered the Bronze age if I wanted to play better . And after more time I mastered the Tool age rush , and then my rank was above 1800 . And now many grandmaster players(not me ) often try some strategies about Dark rush .

So I find , when player attack AI , player should attack early .

It's same in the Civ3&PtW . Many days ago, I often attack AI aften I research Modern Armor . And by and by , I attack AI when I have Cavalry . Half a year ago I attacked AI with my horseman and knight . And now , I often attack AI when I first meet it .

So I want to vote ( but I can 't find vote button when I open this thread ) , when does your first war begin ?

1. The first meet ?
2. When have sword-man and horseman ?
3. When borderline is anear ?
4. When have some Knight or someunit else ?
5. When have Cavalry ?
6. When have Marine Corps ?
7. When have Tank ?
8. When have Modern Armor ?
9. When have ICBM ?

Thanks !

	24-09-2003 06:28									#2
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I can't say all of the above, since I almost never make marines or ICBM.
It is not always the same, it may be 1,2 or 3. Also what do you mean by war. I may attack a settler combo and get into a war, but I may never bother to attack them. I may just let them sent some units for me to kill. Does that count?
I do not play each game the same way, if I did I would have to stop playing more than once or twice a year. It would be boring. That is what is good about the AU, it has different criteria for a game, so it will not be reptitive.

	24-09-2003 07:38									#3
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I usually start my first war around the time of horsemen, and after that whenever necessary, for example securing luxuries and resources.

I usually try go in for the kill when I have a slight edge over them in the unit tree, such as my cavalry to their knights, and also when my UU is avaliable.

However, I don't think it is very interesting to use rules of thumb, such as 'attack once you get knights' or 'peaceful until panzers'. They seem to clog initiative and rule out creative solutions to a problem.

	24-09-2003 09:16									#4
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I may attack a settler combo and get into a war , too , :-)

After all , A war for 2 workers is worth . :-)

	24-09-2003 09:38									#5
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This ignore thing saves time.

	24-09-2003 13:00									#6
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You left out the archer time

	24-09-2003 15:18									#7
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eh, many civs have archer at first meet .

:-) , that's my fault , thanks !

Theseus are right , many times I declare war after saving .

	24-09-2003 15:46									#8
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My first war?

In 4100 BC, against the Chinese (at least on of them).

	24-09-2003 16:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage My first war? In 4100 BC, against the Chinese (at least on of them).

I didn't know we have a time machine improvement in the game.

	24-09-2003 17:53									#10
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My first war usually begins once I have a stack of 6 archers and 1 spearman ready to move in on my closest and strongest neighbour. Though I might occasionally take the opportunity to take a few slaves by attacking their settlers. Especially when they are only being escorted by warriors, or any other unit with a defence of 1 (or in some extreme and rare cases no escort at all).

	24-09-2003 19:27									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus This ignore thing saves time.

quote: Originally posted by fanes7 Theseus are right , many times I declare war after saving .

	24-09-2003 19:28									#12
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When I discover Chivalry.

I love playing as the Japanese.

With Chivalry, I upgrade my horsemen, build a few new Samourai and...



ATTACK

	24-09-2003 19:35									#13
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I also love to bonk settler combos. I modded my game so that instead of 2 workers this generates 2 leaders.

That very much more good!

	24-09-2003 20:22									#14
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SR.

ROFL.

-Arrian

	24-09-2003 21:30									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I also love to bonk settler combos. I modded my game so that instead of 2 workers this generates 2 leaders. That very much more good!

That was funny.

	25-09-2003 01:22									#16
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Quite some time ago I read about Sir Ralph's Archer Rush Strategy. Since then my games always start out this way.

	25-09-2003 02:09									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I also love to bonk settler combos. I modded my game so that instead of 2 workers this generates 2 leaders. That very much more good!

I don't really want to kill everyone's fun, but is it really necessary to bash or make fun of another poster like that? We all know now that poster enhanced his claims and finally got caught at it. As far as I'm concerned the matter is over. Instead of bashing him or making fun of him, just ignore him like Theseus has done.

MZ made a comment on his site about how the 'Poly strat forum isn't a forum where immaturity holds sway and I'd really like to keep it that way.

And even though I quoted SR, this is by no means directed at him or anyone in particular. It's just a general request to everyone to keep the strat forum at a high level of decency. Thanks.

	25-09-2003 05:34									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I also love to bonk settler combos. I modded my game so that instead of 2 workers this generates 2 leaders. That very much more good!

That's great ! Maybe I can build a worker , then he become a Leader ?!

	25-09-2003 10:43									#20
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I love it when workers become leaders. Like the Great Chairman, who is a mere son of a peasant by origin.

	25-09-2003 13:46									#21
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SR,

Is that barfraulein in your avatar really using the pressure from the two beers in her hands to hold up two more beers, or are my eyes fooling me?!?!

USC

	25-09-2003 14:08									#22
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I don't know how the pressure is distributed. I only know, that a really good waitress (or waiter) carries twelve "Maß" of one liter each at once, that makes six in every hand.

	25-09-2003 16:13									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I didn't know we have a time machine improvement in the game.

Fanes has one. He gets a GL, keeps it, goes backwards in time and gets a second, then a third and ...
It's more efficient than tweaking the program as Alexman did (BTW, did you notice that his seventh GL from the right has blue eyes insted of brown ones?).

	25-09-2003 18:06									#24
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depends on difficulty level i think.

I play deity, and my first wars usually start when i have a decent force, a force strong enough to punish an opponent hard enough to be sure people will get peace with me when i need it.

Sometimes i do for an exeption take badly protected settlers very early in the game, but i consider it a risk. With the free units they get (12), i will be carefull starting a war before i have some units myself, and certainly will not go to war with more than 1 opponent.

The moment of war usually is when i have more than 10 swordsmen (warriors upgraded to swordsmen) about 6 cities, probably around 1200 BC.
I know many people go for horsemen, but since warriors are so nicely cheap to produce and upgradable to swordsmen, i always use swordsmen.

So my question:

-who of you use horsemen on deity? and could you give me some more info on you early game strats and goals?

-who fights with early archers on deity? if you only use a few to take wandering settlers, is that really part of your game plan and strategy, or do you only do so if you just happen to actually find a badly defended one?

	25-09-2003 18:12									#25
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so in your voting thing:
2 and 3, usually are around the same time, and that is the time i first start to fight.
except for an occasional 1 if i meet an opponent who didn't have bronze working and thus didn't get 8 spearmen to protect his settlers.

when upgraded the warriors to swordsmen (and i cant produce anymore warriors) i start producing horsemen which i will later upgrade to samurai / knights /war elephants.

I fight this first war with the following goals:
-get leader for forbidden palace
-get techs in peace nagotiations
-get acces to resources.

	25-09-2003 19:14									#26
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I'm a peacenik, well mostly anyway. I usually wait until I've finished expansion into my first continent (huge map, archipelago, this can take a while) and have at least one defender in all cities.

At that point I switch from rapid expansion to rabble-rouser. By then I am about halfway between knights and cavalry on the tech tree.

	25-09-2003 19:59									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I don't know how the pressure is distributed. I only know, that a really good waitress (or waiter) carries twelve "Maß" of one liter each at once, that makes six in every hand.

Those are liter-sized? I don't think we use anything but half-liters over here... and the most I've ever seen anyone carry is, I think, six or so -- all hooked on to various fingers. Six in a hand, and a liter per krígl -- UAU!!!

	25-09-2003 20:06									#28
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I can't imagine it either, just saw it on TV recently (at the Oktoberfest opening).

And they are liters. This is Bavaria here.

	25-09-2003 20:20									#29
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I can imagine a couple of wars getting started after those are finished!!

	25-09-2003 21:47									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill I don't really want to kill everyone's fun, but is it really necessary to bash or make fun of another poster like that? We all know now that poster enhanced his claims and finally got caught at it. As far as I'm concerned the matter is over. Instead of bashing him or making fun of him, just ignore him like Theseus has done.

Well said

Regardless of what this person claimed and boasted upon in other threads, in this one he is asking an honest question inviting honest discussion.

And what is he getting in return? Tactless sarcasm about him and his nationality.

I thought the strat forum was the epitome of politness and cordiality here in Apolyton, but this thread has made me rethink that. It's no better than some of the demo game threads that some of you so despise.