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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:13
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Great idea there are so few good scenarios about this area (Mongols by Harlan Thompson (I think) is the only one that stands out)
so this should be a rare treat,
Btw I think that the juan-juan are called the jwen-jwen (in English anyway), I could be wrong but just though I'd mention it
Can't wait to see it when its finished
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Cockney used to be schizophereic but we'er ok now
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:13
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Yes I am fairly sure about the translation, because bu-min revotled against them and nearly destroyed the entire Jwen-Jwen people in the process, but he died before he could exploit his victories, this being left to his sons and bother.
Hope this helps.
Just one question is this scenario going to be about Bu-min and his sons or about the general situation it central asia at this time?
Edit: The source of the translation is a rather large book entitled anicent and medieval history published in about 1950, I found it to be very accurate (albeit slightly opinionated) so far.
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Cockney used to be schizophereic but we'er ok now
[This message has been edited by C0ckney (edited June 18, 2000).]
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Prometeus
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of Old Europe - "In America we don't trust"
Jun 2000
time: 06:13
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To COckney
The scenario is about Bu-min Kaghan, but it includes his sons, his brother Istemi Kaghan and his son Tardu *, so it's somewhere in the middle. I wanted to show the Central Asia situation also - their historical figures are planned to be the mirror to show these times.
P.S. Bu-min - according to my sources - DESTROYED THE ENTIRE Eastern Avars PEOPLE, he died the year after due to battle wounds.
Western Avars were a totally different people - nomad formations change their names the same way trees changes their leaves.
Yeep, you're right ! If Bu-min was dead for good in 553, perhaps 546 is a better year to start ...
Anyway, my source is Jean Paul Roux's book, "A history of the Turks".
* Edit: i mean, it includes the On ok-western Kok Turks empire also ( i planned Kok Turks wars against juan-juan/jwen-jwen and chinese, and On Ok to fight against Persians and Eftalites, with nomadic Turks acting as "free dogs" in this situation - not to mention the fratricide war between Kok Turks and On Ok at the middle of this scenario; pretty wild fight, huh ? "Rivers of blood, prepare yourself to get pale for envy", Remunnu e'Locu translated - quite badly -into english ) ...
To Stefan Hartel
Another historical event i notice i've missed: the Muslim conquest of Persia !!! What do you think about a Tech trick in order to replace Persian units with brand-new Muslim ones ? Maybe i can rename Persians Iranians or something ...
(ex. if Persians units --> U1, then i'll fire them with an obsolescence tech U2 that brings brand-new Muslim units )
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 19, 2000).]
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:13
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546 would be a good year to start, especialy you could simulate a huge battle or series of battles in which Bu-min could defeat the Jwen-Jwen, but I think this to be historically accurate would have to be handeled with care (i.e if you had a Bu min unit then how would get rid of him in time for his death!). Personaly I think that it might be better to start a little later and concentrate on Bu min's decendents empire but thats just an idea.
When you say the muslim conquest of Persia do you mean the first raids around 640 or the more lasting conquest of about 680-700 AD, it is also worth noting that arab power suffeed an eclipse bettween about 668-680 because of interal difficulties.
Also from about 750 onwards the arab became incresingly persianised so you may have to a third advance which changes the arab units back into persian ones! This all depends on how long your scenario will be.
Hope this helps.
Edit: The Jwen-Jwen were not completely destroyed but instead the battered reminates took refuge in Northern China (well at least according to my book)
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Cockney used to be schizophereic but we'er ok now
[This message has been edited by C0ckney (edited June 19, 2000).]
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:13
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Great I'm glad I could be of help,
just one little thing I'd like to ask, would it possible for me to playtest the scenario when it is done? (although I do understand this may take a while)
P.S thank you for the infomation about the Jwen-Jwen (looking through my book I find it does tent to omit the more grumsome details)
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18-06-2000 11:47
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