25-09-2003 21:27									#31
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Yea, the Green Party is wack.

When I heard that I started yelling at the screen. They said what? Rich pay 30 something % less taxes than everyone else, and that latinos pay more.

I was like, how the hell is that possible you F'in liar! Have you even looked at how taxes are structured you idiot!

Anyway...

The republican were for prop 53, which increases spending. Yet, both said ppl were paying to much in taxes for what they get.

	25-09-2003 21:39									#32
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye quote: I dont know why Arine did not jump into the other debates Perhaps because they did not offer the questions in advance.

Most of the question you know will be asked, you can predict them ahead of time. He did not have to know the questions in advance. I think he would have done just fine.

	25-09-2003 21:41									#33
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I remember hearing that in terms of total revenue for the federal government the top 10% of earners pays 70% of the total tax money while the bottom 50% of earners pays less then 5% of the total tax money.

	25-09-2003 21:44									#34
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous I watched the whole thing. Arnold didn't answer any of the questions. Ariana was just silly. To listen to them try to pronounce the name of the state just made me laugh. As for the rest, McClintok is your typical Republican...we have a great deficit, but heck, LETS CUT MORE RICH TAXES! Camejo I thought looked the best, though I'm not sure about his fuzzy math. Bustamante had the best platform, and kept his cool for almost all of the debate. No wonder the republicans are unsure if they made the best decision.

What debate did you listen to?? Arnold may not have been very specific, but he does have a bacis understanding of the major problems the state of California is facing and what needs to be done to fix those problems.

The only tax cuts I heard is to repeal the trippling of the car tax, and McClintock wants to go futher and repeal the whole thing through a consitutional admendment that he is trying to get on the March 2004 ballot. This will help everyone in the state, mostly the poor and middle class.

Bustamante, he is just appealing to his base, which I see you are a part of. He wants to raise taxes in the middle of recession. He believes there is no such thing as illigeal immigration. That is just the start of the problems I have with him.

	25-09-2003 21:45									#35
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One of the most startling things for Democrats is the complete lack of defense of Gray Davis by Bustamante. Everytime anyone pointed out something truly negative about the current adminstration, Bustamante said in effect - talk to Davis, not me. Clearly Bustamante is not comfortable with the No on recall and Yes on Bustamante strategy. He has strong differences with Davis, and that was clear.

For Democrats, Bustamante's message was

- Yes on recall.

- Yes on Bustamante.

	25-09-2003 21:48									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I was singularly impressed with Bustamante. He appeared competent, dignified and respectful. He has a tremendous voice. If he ever wanted to get out of politics, he could have a big future in acting or on talk radio.

This is only part I dissagree with you. Bustamante was talking under Arnold and telling "You might not know this ..." all through out the debate. Kind of like the same crap Al Gore pulled on Bush during the 2000 presidental debates.

	25-09-2003 21:48									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I remember hearing that in terms of total revenue for the federal government the top 10% of earners pays 70% of the total tax money while the bottom 50% of earners pays less then 5% of the total tax money.

While this true, you aren't thinking on the individual evel. A larger portion of smaller incomes goes to paying taxes than those with larger incomes. That's becuase people with middle to lower incomes don't save or invest very much, and all their money get's taxed coming and going. Also consider that after a certain level, Social Security is a regressive tax.

	25-09-2003 21:49									#38
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Arnold's attacks:

He told ol' Busta that he is affiliated with Davis, his party, and his office so he hold him just as responsible for Davis' mistakes that was good.

He brought up the illegal driver's liscenses! Which wasn't even part of the debate!

He said he is the only one up there qualified to run the economy of California as he is the only one who has a successful buisness, and that while he signs the front of checks they were all use to signing only the back

Arnold did some really good ad lib while addressing the issues and even defended himself well when Ariana attacked his stance on private interest (which I think she missed on when he said he wants to lower property tax - talk about private/self interest!)

Still voting for Arnie

	25-09-2003 22:04									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www What debate did you listen to?? Arnold may not have been very specific, but he does have a bacis understanding of the major problems the state of California is facing and what needs to be done to fix those problems. The only tax cuts I heard is to repeal the trippling of the car tax, and McClintock wants to go futher and repeal the whole thing through a consitutional admendment that he is trying to get on the March 2004 ballot. This will help everyone in the state, mostly the poor and middle class.

You're right. I mispoke on McClintok...however, his lack of support for raising taxes for corporations and the rich is similar.

However, his stance on abortion, gun control, and especially immigration makes me sick.

I'm not picking a candidate. I'm not a Californian and I don't follow Californian politics. I only follow National, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania politics. However, McClintok seemed to me no different than any discompassionate conservative.

	25-09-2003 22:12									#40
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous You're right. I mispoke on McClintok...however, his lack of support for raising taxes for corporations and the rich is similar. However, his stance on abortion, gun control, and especially immigration makes me sick. I'm not picking a candidate. I'm not a Californian and I don't follow Californian politics. I only follow National, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania politics. However, McClintok seemed to me no different than any discompassionate conservative.

Most of California's taxes come from the income tax, which in this state the top earners, I think around 50,000 for a single person starts, pays 9.3 percent on top of the federal income tax. The rich already pay a lot of money. The problem is not that taxes dried up but that Gray Davis and the legislature spent more money then we had. During his 5 years in office population and inflation only increased by 21% while the taxes coming into the state rose by 25%, but they raised spending by 40%, thus the mess we are in now.

By the way what immigration policies would you like to see come about and how do you exactly dissagree with McClintock?

	26-09-2003 00:35									#41
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Arnie definately wins the most sexist award. He interupted Arrianna far more often than any other candidate interupted another candidate. Once when Arrianna was talking he said "I have a role for you in Terminator IV". In Terminator III, he shoved a woman's head into a toilet. He's a jerk who has no consideration for others, especially women.

	26-09-2003 00:43									#42
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Ariana should have her head shoved in a toilet that ranting lunatic... Personally, I'd do more than just put her head in the toilet

YEAH ARNOLD!

	26-09-2003 00:51									#43
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic Once when Arrianna was talking he said "I have a role for you in Terminator IV".

No, Arrianna was not talking when he said that. She had just made a personal attack on him, so the moderator gave him a chance to respond. That was when he uttered the Terminator 4 line.

	26-09-2003 01:03									#44
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Federal money to the states has also dried up. Almost every single state in the union is in a fiscal crisis. You Californians are not alone.

	26-09-2003 01:06									#45
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You Californians are not alone.

I think they are a special case considering the fact that thier deficit equals that of all the other states in financial trouble combined.

	26-09-2003 01:07									#46
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The reason for that (and I'm guessing here) is probably that too many federal mandates are being passed on to states without the federal funding to carry them out.

	26-09-2003 01:34									#47
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That, and the fact that government spending is tied to programs and population, not tax revenues. So when revenues decrease because of a downturn in the economy, spending still keeps going up.

	26-09-2003 02:12									#48
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quote: Federal money to the states has also dried up. Almost every single state in the union is in a fiscal crisis. You Californians are not alone.

We also whine louder...

	26-09-2003 04:16									#49
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From all I've heard McClintock was the best in this debate. He really seems like he may have a chance now. Who knows?

	26-09-2003 04:22									#50
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I argued that California made a mistake during the energy crisis by not letting the consumer electrical price rise with the market. I feel validated. The total cost is more because there was no price-dictated reduction in demand.

	26-09-2003 05:32									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui From all I've heard McClintock was the best in this debate. He really seems like he may have a chance now. Who knows?

You should have seen him though. He may have did the best in the debate, but he looks like the Beast. He talks like him too.

	26-09-2003 07:18									#52
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The Beast is the man!