25-09-2003 23:03									#1
	Job Searching Tips Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I have been looking for a job for 4 months now. I may be close to getting a job. One job I just applied for (computer tect) I have to take a test and past it so I can get an interview. Do you have any tips on what I should do for this test? SO far I dont know what this test is on but I guess it is a computer test. Also do you just have general tips for the unemployed of Apolyton?

Thanks,
Jack_www

	25-09-2003 23:08									#2
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Temping. It's a great foot-in-the-door.

	25-09-2003 23:48									#3
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Temping. It's a great foot-in-the-door.

And the other side of the door is a long, dark corridor, where nothing changes until you reach the dead end or die trying. And the carpet is a horrible mouldy grey colour.

	26-09-2003 01:06									#4
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I had to do a test for my current (computer related) job as well. I was pretty nervous about it as I feared they would ask a lot of hardware related problems while I'm more of a software guy.

But coincidentally I also had an exam for a computer hardware course on my uni around the same time. And whaddya know -- most of the hardware questions on the application test where about the same topics as my uni exam, and most of them I probably wouldn't have been able to anwer (or at least not nearly as well) if it wasn't for the preparation. They give that same test to everyone who applies to that company and the woman who later hired me told me I had one of the best scores ever Even now (about two years later), some people still regard me one of the biggest hardware experts in the company, even though I'm not

So if you have any 'weak spots' when it comes to computer knowledge, hit the books, it could come in handy

	26-09-2003 01:23									#5
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IW has a point. My new job is via a scientific agency, but it is contractual unlike my crap paid ongoing position which I currently have...

	26-09-2003 01:28									#6
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Locutus, I do find it daft that they examine you in something that the company is going to teach you though. I have had a genetics exam (and it was pretty advanced genetics) for one job, where they were going to teach me all the stuff anyway I ask you, what is the point? I think psychometric tests and the like are a waste of time, and it is just HR department hanger-oners justifying their jobs...

	26-09-2003 01:31									#7
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It could be a behavioral test. Those are very trendy now. I've been using them quite successfully for about 9 years. If it's one of those let me know, and I can give tips how to beat it.

	26-09-2003 01:44									#8
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quote: If it's one of those let me know, and I can give tips how to beat it.

Shoot the little girl with the Quantum Mechanics book and not the aliens...

	26-09-2003 02:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by rah It could be a behavioral test. Those are very trendy now. I've been using them quite successfully for about 9 years. If it's one of those let me know, and I can give tips how to beat it.

I think that would be a really fascinating topic if you're willing to share.

	26-09-2003 02:56									#10
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A behavioral interview is a series of questions chosen based on the characteristics of the skills needed for a particular position. There are a couple hundred questions which you narrow down to 10-15 for the interview. It's a structured interview that you give to each applicant. (so you can't be nailed for discrimination)

example question #1
Give us an example of a time at work when you had to deal with unreasonable expectations of you. Tell us how you handled the situation. (for positions where COPING is importnant)

Things to look for in the answer
Good.
did the candidate demonstrate an insightful response
did he demonstrate positive feelings.
did he get results
BAD
Did he blame
did he retaliate
did he withdraw
did he give up

You also ask for documentation of the incident. NAMES AND DATES which you can check if the story sounds a little to good or obviously made up (and you can usually tell when that happens)

Also when you hear answers the candidate usually spends so much effort trying to slant the story positive that they slip and expose some of their basic charateristics. (one person made a crack about every boss he had in 10 different questions) It was obvious that he had no respect for authority. But if you asked the person straight up, he would have said he did. When the interview was done, the applicant thought he had nailed it. My interviewing partner and I laughed for a week.

For each characteristic that you're looking for you ask one positive type and one negative type question.

Another example question.

Tell me about a time when you were successful in dealing with an unstructured work environment. (ambiguity)
Good
did candiate stay organized
provide meaningful self-direction
Bad
show frustration
non-productive use of time.
etc.

Once you're familiar with this type of interviewing. All you need is to do is make up about 20 situations that cover the skills tested. There are ways to sound specific but still vague enough that the situations can't be verified. (use customer names in incidents) (Just first names of co-workers and common last names) (Use seasons of the year instead of specific dates, i.e last summer) etc.

They are usually followed by a couple of questions about skills specific to the job. We usually ask some generic programming questions.

	26-09-2003 05:05									#11
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Very cool rah, thanks for the info. Its definitely good stuff to know, and interesting to know what questions like that are really getting at.

Thanks for taking the time to type it up!

	26-09-2003 05:16									#12
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Make comments about previous boss
Oh well, back to the drawing board . . .

	26-09-2003 05:51									#13
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quote: Originally posted by rah example question #1 Give us an example of a time at work when you had to deal with unreasonable expectations of you. Tell us how you handled the situation. (for positions where COPING is importnant) Things to look for in the answer Good. did the candidate demonstrate an insightful response did he demonstrate positive feelings. did he get results BAD Did he blame did he retaliate did he withdraw did he give up

What if you say You never recall having to deal with an unreasonable expectation from ur previous job?

	27-09-2003 07:17									#14
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Temping. It's a great foot-in-the-door.

I have had many "foot-in-the-door" interviews happen with me, and in the end the door gets slammed into by foot and face.

About the test, I think it is a general computer knowledge test, on paper, and multiple choice.

	27-09-2003 07:21									#15
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Don't ask me, I looked for 8 months.

	27-09-2003 08:22									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www About the test, I think it is a general computer knowledge test, on paper, and multiple choice.

I have some good experience as far as tests in this specific Domain are concerned, pun intended!
Tests of this nature generally fall into communications (TCP/IP), construction, and troubleshooting. What is the specific job your applying for?


D

	27-09-2003 08:39									#17
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You know, it is one of my major goals in my career never to have to suffer the pain inflicted upon one via being subjected to The Rah Interviews. Oh, I have no problem inflicting them on others, but I don't want to have to go through the same process myself.

At the age of 36 I can claim "So far, so good!"

	27-09-2003 09:04									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan I have some good experience as far as tests in this specific Domain are concerned, pun intended! Tests of this nature generally fall into communications (TCP/IP), construction, and troubleshooting. What is the specific job your applying for? D

It is a computer tech, just need 2 years experience and they did not even say what kind of degree you need. I very close to an 2 year degree in Computer Science and they called me to take this test. So that should tell you the qualifications for the job. The salary is about $2600 to $3200 dollars a month(US dollars). That is about 38,000 a year at the high end of the scale.

It is also in a school district and they want someone with experience in a computer lab.

	27-09-2003 13:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Don't ask me, I looked for 8 months.

A friend of mine has been looking for 2 1/2 years!

He hasn't got anything, even though he slashed his asking salary by 1/3.

	27-09-2003 14:39									#20
	Re: Job Searching Tips Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Jack_www I have been looking for a job for 4 months now. I may be close to getting a job. One job I just applied for (computer tect) I have to take a test and past it so I can get an interview. Do you have any tips on what I should do for this test? SO far I dont know what this test is on but I guess it is a computer test. Also do you just have general tips for the unemployed of Apolyton? Thanks, Jack_www

You'd be better off going to Monster.com than Apolyton.com.

	27-09-2003 16:14									#21
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quote: Originally posted by rah A behavioral interview is a series of questions chosen based on the characteristics of the skills needed for a particular position. There are a couple hundred questions which you narrow down to 10-15 for the interview. It's a structured interview that you give to each applicant. (so you can't be nailed for discrimination) example question #1 Give us an example of a time at work when you had to deal with unreasonable expectations of you. Tell us how you handled the situation. (for positions where COPING is importnant) Things to look for in the answer Good. did the candidate demonstrate an insightful response did he demonstrate positive feelings. did he get results BAD Did he blame did he retaliate did he withdraw did he give up You also ask for documentation of the incident. NAMES AND DATES which you can check if the story sounds a little to good or obviously made up (and you can usually tell when that happens) Also when you hear answers the candidate usually spends so much effort trying to slant the story positive that they slip and expose some of their basic charateristics. (one person made a crack about every boss he had in 10 different questions) It was obvious that he had no respect for authority. But if you asked the person straight up, he would have said he did. When the interview was done, the applicant thought he had nailed it. My interviewing partner and I laughed for a week. For each characteristic that you're looking for you ask one positive type and one negative type question. Another example question. Tell me about a time when you were successful in dealing with an unstructured work environment. (ambiguity) Good did candiate stay organized provide meaningful self-direction Bad show frustration non-productive use of time. etc. Once you're familiar with this type of interviewing. All you need is to do is make up about 20 situations that cover the skills tested. There are ways to sound specific but still vague enough that the situations can't be verified. (use customer names in incidents) (Just first names of co-workers and common last names) (Use seasons of the year instead of specific dates, i.e last summer) etc. They are usually followed by a couple of questions about skills specific to the job. We usually ask some generic programming questions.

Yes, demonstration of how employers want 'good little citizens'. As you know, I am fairly nihilistic in my approach to life, and I have no respect for authority - respect has to be earned. As I have found that most 'superiors' are rarely worthy of any respect it is a problem. Alas, this current system of screening and selection represents the problems of present day employers. They want supplicating drones to fill positions, not thinkers...

	27-09-2003 16:35									#22
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rah, thanks for your inside information on this. It was very interesting.

My problem is I'm a terrible lying. If I try it, to make me look better, everyone can tell I'm not speaking truth, I get so uncomfortable, so I tend to not say where I think I'm good because that way I can feel very comfortable about myself, but that won't really help me getting jobs

Also some interviewers might be a little stuck up and take the interview rather seriously, when I was in interview few years ago just after army, it went ok I think and the last question was 'where do you see yourself in this company after 5 years?' and I hadn't done my research about the company too good so I cracked a joke 'in your place' and laughed nervously like an idiot and she didn't laugh at all and was like 'yyyyeah... ok' and wrote something down which I think was negative because they never contacted me again

I'm don't have any experience in recruiting folks, but if I was in charge of that, I wouldn't care so much about little things... I'd want to see that the person is able to do the job and has the needed skills, is initiative and shows it in some way. That's about it. And it's a plus if the person has some higher goals as well, and wants to advance in career.

	27-09-2003 16:43									#23
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I demonstrated a desire to advance in career and that I wanted to progress...I have had one hate it and one love it...it depends on the employer. Some are up their arse and some aren't. I couldn't see myself working for an employer who is up their arse...

	27-09-2003 16:53									#24
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I don't know if this is a good tip or not, but younger I needed a job for a short while in computer area, I was 15 with my friend, and what we did was that we didn't even look up what's available, we didn't call, we just walked in to the computer stores in Helsinki, we just wrote down addresses from computer magazine in our area and decided to spend few days just walking in them and walking straight up to the first guy we saw and say we want a job.

It was actually fun stuff, now it wouldn't be that fun, but then it was and I tell you it was working. The first store offered a job, but only one place and we wanted to be together so we turned it down
So only few stores we found our place which was excellent btw, the best of the ones we went in, and they directed us to some guy I don't even know who he was there was so much people, and first he was like 'wtf' and we explained 'yeah well we need a job and we like computers'. That was pretty much about it.

I remember thinking we woudln't get anything because he said they didn't have any open positions and that we were kind of young as well, so we said we'd do anything in here, what ever doesn't matter and we could start right now. So we cleaned the place up few times, but we were eager to get our hands on these new pentiums (that was when first pentiums came in with force), so we figured if we keep bugging this guy he'd eventually let us do something with the computers, so everytime we had finished carrying boxes, cleaning something up again and what ever small tasks he had.. it worked. He ran out of ideas so he asked 'can you assemble computers?'. Now we didn't know hwo to do that, we never even had opened our cases really but we said 'sure!' and he just told us to go downstairs with the tech guys, and we watched them do it and it looked pretty easy so we just said to them 'the boss man told us to work with you guys' and they were like wtf just happened but they were nice enough to guide us for few hours and there we hit it off, started building computers for clients.

It was so cool, because we had more motivation and energy to work at that point than other tech guys, we just grabbed their order papers and started doing kind of their job but they were cool with it. The boss guy was so happy with us it was great. He didn't pay us very much, but he did let us choose some hardware we could take .

So you know... initiative. But I don't know, maybe it had something to do with us being so young, it might not work if you're 30 or something. But the point is, it might not be such a bad idea just to walk in and say you want to work here. I don't know, for us it worked.

edit: and the reason we did it like this is because we didn't know any other way, so we kind of broke all the rules, we thought this is the way everyone does it. And we were excited about it, we only wanted to be near computers, and everything more would be a great bonus. I guess that shows and we were kind of a safe bet also considering we weren't after money, just for the computers. This is how I'm planning on trying getting a job as one method, but I don't know if it works anymore. But you don't know it unless you try it!

	27-09-2003 17:44									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka So you know... initiative. But I don't know, maybe it had something to do with us being so young, it might not work if you're 30 or something. But the point is, it might not be such a bad idea just to walk in and say you want to work here. I don't know, for us it worked.

It does work, either by walking in or cold calling. Your chances aren't that great, but you may be able to tap into hidden jobs that way.

Be prepared to receive lots of rejections though.

	27-09-2003 18:09									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yep.. lots of rejection in your way I'd assume. But you know that many jobs are not there in the papers or on the internet, they go by the way of inside information. Someone leaves, or they need more people, the workers usually know this and they come with suggestions of people they know. I read somewhere that in here only third of open places ever are sent for the public seekers to fight for. So if you call, you never know because they just might have the job open. It's worth a shot anyway. Call, walk in.. I think e-mails won't work that good. Well I think what I'd think if I was in that position and some person just walked up to me and sai d 'I want to work for you, any open place?'.. I promise I'd think about it real hard if the person wasn't someway weird or with bad appearance.

	28-09-2003 05:07									#27
	Re: Re: Job Searching Tips Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 You'd be better off going to Monster.com than Apolyton.com.

I am. I am looking every where that I can. But every time I apply for a job on monster.com I never hear from the company I applied to, ever.

	28-09-2003 05:08									#28
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ANy ways does anyone have some tips for this computer test? I doubt it will be anything like the test that Rah talked about.

	28-09-2003 07:30									#29
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Rah said, "Hit the books."

	28-09-2003 08:31									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Rah said, "Hit the books."

Now I got this stupid cold and it is even hard to sleep at night. Trying to rest and see if it goes away by monday, been sick for 3 days now. I am getting a little better day by day. On monday I am going to get some computer books, but I would like to know what areas I should cover.