26-09-2003 15:13									#1
	Some Intellectually Lazy Lumberjacking Questions Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I realize that I could just systematically test this myself, but I'm too lazy, and I figure someone else may have already arrived at the answers.

1. If a tree falls in the forest and there are no friendly borders around to enclose it, does anybody get +10 shields?

1a. If not, is the bonus also lost when the border condition is unmet only at the operation's operation's start... or end (unlikely but possible)?

1b. If so, what happens when the tree falls within another civ's borders (e.g. during an ROP)?

2. If a tree falls in the forest and there are borders to enclose it, but no city radii to reach it, does anybody get +10 shields?

2a. Going off on a limb here, what if a tree falls within foreign borders, but outside any foreign city radii and inside a friendly one?

USC

	26-09-2003 15:40									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have chopped forests outside my city cultural borders and also outside a city radius early in the game and received the 10 shields, so the answer to that part of your question is yes. As for the other questions, sorry I don't know.

What I am confused by is when a forest gets chopped equidistant from 2 cities how is it decided which city gets the 10 shields?

	26-09-2003 15:49									#3
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If it is the same distance from 2 cities, it goes to the one that is working that tile. If neither are working the tile, I think it goes to the city earliest in the city list (normally the first one founded). Best to stick labourers on the forest for one turn to make sure it goes where you want, unless there are good micromanagenment reasons not to.

	26-09-2003 18:13									#4
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There is one other way to choosing which city gets the effects: if you switch one of them to a wonder (or palace), which cannot get shields from a chop, the chop bonus will automatically allocate to the other city.

-Arrian

	26-09-2003 19:24									#5
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From my observations, forests cut outside a city radius never go anywhere. I've not tried chopping the second tile out of a non-culture city. I always assumed it must be within both culture and city radius.

Thanks vulture and Arrian for the tips on directing the lumber. No more 'aargh, not there" for me

	26-09-2003 21:04									#6
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A few things I have deduced from many games:

You can only get a bonus if you chop in a tile that is within your cultural border or in unclaimed territory.

You do not get the bonus if the tile is within another civs cultural borders. I do not know if the other civ gets it.

For a city to get the bonus from a forest chop the tile chopped must be within the citie's 21 tile radii whether or not your cultural border extends that far. (i.e., If the city radii is only one tile out chopping a forest two tiles out will still give the bonus to the city.)

Once a forest tile is chopped, whether or not the bonus is generated, no bonus can be gained by another chop.

	26-09-2003 23:47									#7
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I have always been somewhat fuzzy on timber chopping results myself. This is some good info.

	27-09-2003 00:10									#8
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Another tidbit...

As eluded to by Arrian, a city building a wonder will not get the bonus. If you chop and get the bonus while building a non-wonder item you will not be able to switch production to the wonder. The city must build something else to erase the memory that the city received a bonus before you can start a wonder in that city. The same is true if you disband units in the city or hurry production.

	27-09-2003 14:21									#9
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Quote from Monty Python:
"I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay..."

(sorry, couldn't resist )