28-09-2003 03:13									#31
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quote: Originally posted by TCO In the end, the dotcom boom was very wasteful.

That is why capitalism will fall in the end.

Basically the 90's was a time where the lack of a "Communist threat" took out some of the conservatives' ammo and the nation leaned left and elected Clinton. I beilive the victory of the Republicans in thie House in '94 was from gerrymandering. The 90's were basically a time of optimism at the end of the Cold War.

	28-09-2003 03:33									#32
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I have been directed not to call people morons. Hint, hint.

	28-09-2003 04:01									#33
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In the 1930's under Hoover, in the 1980's under Reagan and in the 2000's under Bush, the Republicans instituted supply-side economics. The wealth these Presidents directed into the hands of the rich never trickled down. The U.S. had under Hoover, the Great Depression; under Reagan, the biggest stock market crash since the Great Depression; and under Bush, the bigget deficit in the history of humanity.

In the 1940's & 1950's, FDR & Truman instituted demand-supply economics putting money directly into the hands of consumers, creating the stunning growth of the mid-50's. Clinton re-instituted supply-side economics, and created the boom years of the 1990's.

So the 90's were not an anomoly. There were the result of the exercise of good sense.

	28-09-2003 10:53									#34
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*cough*

The 70s were the greatest demand-side economics decade. As Nixon said "We are all Keynesians now". In the 80s, we moved away from Keynes and ended up with a much, much, much more prosperous decade... which set up the building blocks for the 90s.

	28-09-2003 14:03									#35
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quote: The 80's were pretty good; certainly better then the 70's.

Actually average 70s unemployment was lower than average 80s unemployment (the early 80s were a real basket case). And the 90s weren't ALL that great, just when unemployment was getting low enough to get some real wage growth things went to hell, so we never got anything remotely comparable to the real wage growth for most of the populations that we had in the 50s, 60s and early 70s. Of course a lot of this has to do with be spiraling costs of the health insurance benefits that employers provide to employees, (or, increasily, don't provide) but still...

	28-09-2003 17:49									#36
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Well just looking the growth in the economy it's pretty much hobson's choice between the 1970's, 80's and 90's

GDP growth:
1970-1980: 37.0%
1980-1990: 36.9%
1990-2000: 37.0%


But the job market's growth has slowed sigificantly during the period:

Employment growth:
1970-1980: 26.2%
1980-1990: 19.6%
1990-2000: 15.2%

	28-09-2003 18:04									#37
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Are those US figures? Please label your stats more carefully.

	28-09-2003 18:49									#38
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Of course they are US figures, the GDP data comes from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and the employment data from the Bureau of Labor Statisics

	28-09-2003 19:29									#39
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Here in Denmark, we have had good, if not booming times since the late seventies. Once the shock of the oil prices in the early seventies waned off, we have had changing governments rougly every 6-8 years, and this has in fact done us good.

Our conservative/liberal governments like to have tight financial policies, conserving the economy, and our social-democrat governments have increased spending to boost the economy.

And every time the government has changed, it has done so at precisely the right time.

Not even the recession of this decade can be said to have hit us too hard.

Asmodean

	28-09-2003 20:20									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Odin That is why capitalism will fall in the end. Basically the 90's was a time where the lack of a "Communist threat" took out some of the conservatives' ammo and the nation leaned left and elected Clinton. I beilive the victory of the Republicans in thie House in '94 was from gerrymandering. The 90's were basically a time of optimism at the end of the Cold War.

Central planning tends to be more wasteful than capitalism.

Most of the rest I agree with. Just not the gerrymandering thing. Where did you come up with that?

	28-09-2003 20:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by el freako Of course they are US figures, the GDP data comes from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and the employment data from the Bureau of Labor Statisics

Well...they were percentage changes. I mean even a magnitude might have helped me.

Anyway, you need to drop your American-centricity. They are not the only economy that matters.

	28-09-2003 20:23									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler In the 1930's under Hoover, in the 1980's under Reagan and in the 2000's under Bush, the Republicans instituted supply-side economics. The wealth these Presidents directed into the hands of the rich never trickled down. The U.S. had under Hoover, the Great Depression; under Reagan, the biggest stock market crash since the Great Depression; and under Bush, the bigget deficit in the history of humanity. In the 1940's & 1950's, FDR & Truman instituted demand-supply economics putting money directly into the hands of consumers, creating the stunning growth of the mid-50's. Clinton re-instituted supply-side economics, and created the boom years of the 1990's. So the 90's were not an anomoly. There were the result of the exercise of good sense.

So Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and all the dotcoms were good sense?

	28-09-2003 20:28									#43
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*points and laughs at GP*

	28-09-2003 21:52									#44
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quote: Originally posted by TCO So Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and all the dotcoms were good sense?

No, they were a direct result of Republican deregulation, of the Republican mantra that govenment does not provide solutions to problems but is in fact the problem, and of the Repuiblican's PollyAnnic belief that we should place our trust in the innate virtue of corporations.

	28-09-2003 22:00									#45
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Stupid deregulation. I pay more for my telephone, gas and electricity here (by a factor of 2) than I ever did in wonderful, regulated Canada.

	28-09-2003 22:28									#46
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Actually, if Monopolies are private, deregulation could save money.

	28-09-2003 22:34									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler No, they were a direct result of Republican deregulation, of the Republican mantra that govenment does not provide solutions to problems but is in fact the problem, and of the Repuiblican's PollyAnnic belief that we should place our trust in the innate virtue of corporations.

Wait weren't they a part of the boom of the 90s?

	28-09-2003 22:35									#48
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So what did the Clinton/Rubin brainstorm produce? Are you taking credit for the bubble or not?

	28-09-2003 23:00									#49
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Supply-side Economics got us in the Great Depression, Demand-side Economics got us out of it. SO EAT IT! I go by results, not what economists say.

Azazel, I am laughing at TCO too.

	28-09-2003 23:02									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler No, they were a direct result of Republican deregulation, of the Republican mantra that govenment does not provide solutions to problems but is in fact the problem, and of the Repuiblican's PollyAnnic belief that we should place our trust in the innate virtue of corporations.

Hm...didn't Jimmy Carter start deregulating during his administration?

	28-09-2003 23:04									#51
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The funny thing is how he made the data insignificant when it didn't suit his pov.

I still love you, GP.

	28-09-2003 23:28									#52
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quote: Central planning tends to be more wasteful than capitalism.

Key word here is 'tends'. Central planning is less wasteful in certain areas, and should not be suppressed to the extent it is today.

	29-09-2003 03:19									#53
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I read 'Nineties' as 'Nanites'.

I should get glasses, or a brain.

	29-09-2003 03:44									#54
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quote: Originally posted by TCO So Enron, Worldcom, Tyco, and all the dotcoms were good sense?

Actually, they were the results of deregulation begun during the Reagan-Bush years. Enron, for example, did the same exact thing the Dubya did at the four companies he consecutively ran into the ground. BTW, despite Ari Flescher's assertions, Bush was never cleared by the SEC, but since he dad was the Prez at the time, they didn't push it.

Least the Democrat supports on these boards gloat, I would also point out that the Democrats controled the Congress during the Reagan-Bush years. Thus, none of this couldn't have happened without their direct collusion with the Republicans.

	08-10-2003 07:51									#55
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So the dotcom craziness was a silly bubble that couldn't last and that actually wasted resources (during the Clinton presidency) or they were sustainable excellence (during the Clinton presidency).

Face it. Clinton had a bubble. It was bullshit. The market was overvalued. Cut and dried. It may not even have been his fault. But he shouldn't take credit for it. If he does, he's taking credit for smoke and mirrors dotcom silliness.

But of course, who expects a Democrat or a communist to understand economics or business, anyway.

	08-10-2003 08:04									#56
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I just remember being really depressed. Music was so depressing in the mid-90's.

Even Metallica's Load album was really depressing and feeled with more self hatred than usual.

I listened to a lot of Smashing Pumpkins Meloncollie and the Infinite Sadness. A great album, but very depressing.

I remember listeing to Pantera's suicide note parts 1 and 2 alot. That didn't make me feel any better .

And Radiohead had their Creep song, beck had his loser song. Stone Temple Pilots also had a creep song.

I remember the crow soundtrack. excellent soundtrack, but filled with more depressing songs.

Then you had the rage of rage against the machine with their first 2 albums. But that was more rage, nothing really depressing there.

lots of doom and gloom

	08-10-2003 08:06									#57
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quote: Originally posted by TCO So the dotcom craziness was a silly bubble that couldn't last and that actually wasted resources (during the Clinton presidency) or they were sustainable excellence (during the Clinton presidency). Face it. Clinton had a bubble. It was bullshit. The market was overvalued. Cut and dried. It may not even have been his fault. But he shouldn't take credit for it. If he does, he's taking credit for smoke and mirrors dotcom silliness. But of course, who expects a Democrat or a communist to understand economics or business, anyway.

actually back then I even knew it wouldn't last. I could see much of the growth was because of every day people buying computers and the growth of the internet. I knew it would level off.

If I knew anything about investing back then (actually I still don't) I would have invested in bonds or those things that go up when stocks go down.

I think it is time some of you guys realize that the economy is controlled by sources outside the goverment. In this case the internet and technology explosion.

Are you telling me democrats developed this technology themselves? or that Reagan and them forsaw that technology would explode like it did and an internet would be created? None of these people had anything to do with the economy in the late 90's.

	08-10-2003 09:57									#58
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I read recently that in 10 years or so, there will be something like 100,000 jobs more than there are people to fill them (in America that is), and in 2035 it will be double that.

So.. there's not going to be ENOUGH ppl to fill the jobs, now that is a nice future to think of

	08-10-2003 10:00									#59
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optimism is a good thing

I sure hope so.

Because it seems now we are losing accounting and customer service jobs overseas. we are also losing technology related jobs overseas as well. That seems to be a much bigger problem thatn just losing manufacturing jobs overseas.

but all of that could be moot, if something else comes along.

	08-10-2003 10:37									#60
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here's the article for more accurate details

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/...031003_csm.html