26-09-2003 22:16									#1
	Were the Ninties an Anomoly? Remove this text

A lot of liberals like to look back on the 90s like it was a Golden Age (though, compared to what we've had the past three years, it's unsderstandable). But were the 90s really all that great? It's not like we had 8 years of high growth and low unemployment. That was only towards the end, after the East Asian markets collapsed and money started flooding into the U.S. looking for a safe haven for investment.

For the first haf of the Clinton years, the job market was stagnant, wage growth was stagnant, things weren't all that great, though they were better than the Ford-Carter-Reagan-Bush years. Back in the 90s we were talking of a jobless recovery (as opposed to today's jobloss recovery).

But now the money's fled, the jobs are gone, unemployment's up, and it's feeling a lot like the 80s all over again.

Were the 90s a blip, and now we're back to normal? Or is this the blip?

Last edited by chegitz guevara on 08-10-2003 at 22:15

	26-09-2003 22:17									#2
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yes.

	26-09-2003 22:28									#3
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There was a lot of demand for computers and other new products which created high paying jobs and stimulated other industries. That was what made the 90s better than the 70s and 80s. That's bust now. Who knows what will happen the rest of this decade, but I predict another very bad recession if we are really recoverying from the last one, but I still have doubts about that. However, I'm sure that the short run won't be anything like the 90s unless some very intelligent policies are implemented.

	26-09-2003 22:28									#4
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The 80's were pretty good; certainly better then the 70's. Still the 90's are going to be remembered as one of those rare decades like the 50's or the 20's where every just seemed to be working out right.

	26-09-2003 22:33									#5
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man, does this mean that i'll be telling my grandkids how rough we had it back in the great dot-com bomb?

	26-09-2003 22:33									#6
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What's up, Kidicious, long time no see.

	26-09-2003 22:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious There was a lot of demand for computers and other new products which created high paying jobs and stimulated other industries. That was what made the 90s better than the 70s and 80s. That's bust now. Who knows what will happen the rest of this decade, but I predict another very bad recession if we are really recoverying from the last one, but I still have doubts about that. However, I'm sure that the short run won't be anything like the 90s unless some very intelligent policies are implemented.

An increasing number of skilled, technical jobs are going overseas now, along with the usual industrial production jobs.

	26-09-2003 22:50									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel What's up, Kidicious, long time no see.

I've been around here and there. School started and I don't have a computer at home. So I have to use the school computers, and I usually should be studying when I do.

	26-09-2003 22:59									#9
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Increased trade, lower petroleum prices, and the peace dividend made the 1990's the inverse of the 1970's.

Most firms and consumers are pretty much loaded up on capital goods right now. When these start wearing out we will start seeing cyclic increases in output.

	26-09-2003 23:18									#10
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my family was extremely poor in the 80s (lived in a trailer, ate rice and beans, ect) (some of it was my younger sister who had a congenital heart defect)

we were fairly poor in the 90s (my mom made less than 22000 a year and my dad didn't work) but it was ok because of disability (I have 4 siblings, so it was still tight)

me and my siblings and mom are all doing ok right now (compared to the 80s), in that we all have disposable income (Well, my youngest brother does not because he is in college and my older sister does not because she ****s everything up)

Jon Miller

	26-09-2003 23:22									#11
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I never knew you had such hardship in your life JM^3.

	26-09-2003 23:28									#12
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What an amerocentric thread

The nineties were the end of a half a century of peace, marked by consecutive bad administrations, wars, and plummeting living standard.

Our industrial output went down to 50% of what it was in 1989 and so did our exports, tourism and everything else with that.

We are economically still not at the 1989 levels.

Anomaly? I sure hope so!

	26-09-2003 23:30									#13
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion What an amerocentric thread

The world revolves around us (or so we like to think).

Actually, thank you for your post. An excellent reminder that the last decade wasn't good times for everyone.

	26-09-2003 23:42									#14
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it was mostly good for korea, i'd have to say. stellar growth until '97, when thailand and se asia's disease stung 'em, but by '99, they were back.

it was mostly so-so for japan, with a stagnant economy but a relatively vibrant cultural scene.

mostly good for china, with increasing growth and international prominence.

mostly bad for russia, with a sinking economy and diminished world presence.

	27-09-2003 00:02									#15
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion What an amerocentric thread The nineties were the end of a half a century of peace, marked by consecutive bad administrations, wars, and plummeting living standard. Our industrial output went down to 50% of what it was in 1989 and so did our exports, tourism and everything else with that. We are economically still not at the 1989 levels. Anomaly? I sure hope so!

I hear you, man. ( Well, at least I know very well what you're talking about. We had quite a boom, here, but many people back are in ****. )

	27-09-2003 00:07									#16
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In nineties, half of Europe finally got its freedom. But if it worked out right, it's another question

	27-09-2003 00:13									#17
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the nineties were a little upsurgence of liberalism, a flash from the 60's.

now conform, dammit.

	27-09-2003 00:16									#18
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For Israel:

the 90s were an era of boom, with the massive increase in population, the peace process, and the realization of our high-tech potential. I think our GDP has doubled or something.
It was esp. crucial after two very difficult decades, the 70s and the 80s. We sorta deserve it, in some sense, though the collapse of the many socialist systems was quite the shame.

	27-09-2003 00:26									#19
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quote: the 90s were an era of boom

no pun intended, btw.

	27-09-2003 00:43									#20
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At lot of things happened at the same time to create a good economic boom.

-Clinton's 1993 Budget and the subsequent balancing of the budget
-Rise of the Internet and consumer use
-technology boom... and demand for it
-low unemployment proving that jobs can be created despite raising top income bracket tax rates
-low petroleum prices... America relies on gas, when prices are reasonable, consumers have more money to spend on other things.

Despite the good economic times in the 90's, there were some negatives. Wealth became much more concentrated at the top. Consumer debt continued to rise well above the rate of inflation. Tuition for colleges continued to rise well above rate of inflation... as did health care costs. Minimum wage, although increase slightly by Clinton, remained stagnant compared to the rate of inflation.

IMO, in order to get out of this "jobless recovery", we need to restore upper income taxes to what they were before Bush, put money into job creating government programs (infrastructure, public works, education), institute national health care, put money back into Social Security (IIRC, a third of the Bush tax cut was enough to satisfy SS demands for 75 years). Once consumers have income and money to spend... they CAN SPEND IT. A $400 tax cut isn't going to do **** when people's property taxes, state taxes, health care costs, and tuition costs are rising. ANd they definitely won't spend more if they aren't working. These stupid supply side economic policies might work if this sluggish economy was at all a supply side problem. It's just a ruse to shift the tax burdern from the rich unto the middle and working classes.

	27-09-2003 00:59									#21
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Sava...

How much effect did

quote: Clinton's 1993 Budget and the subsequent balancing of the budget

really have? How can we tell when

quote: -Rise of the Internet and consumer use -technology boom... and demand for it -low unemployment proving that jobs can be created despite raising top income bracket tax rates -low petroleum prices... America relies on gas, when prices are reasonable, consumers have more money to spend on other things.

Was so instrumental in the rising economy?

I agree with all your negatives given to the 90s.

Your health care suggestion is bogus, and would cost a lot. Especially when coupled with your tax cut suggestions.

I agree with where to put money (job creating programs and SS), but disagree with your outlook on your views of what to do with income tax. I do however feel that the way taxes are structured today is a problem, but addressing the problem on an income level basis is not going to fix the problem since the problem is on a much grander scale.

	27-09-2003 01:04									#22
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considering the comparative prices of healthcare in europe, and the comparative quality, I say he's very much right.

	27-09-2003 01:29									#23
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The 90s was my best decade for getting laid.

	27-09-2003 01:30									#24
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quote: Originally posted by pchang The 90s was my best decade for getting laid.

Same here (so far)

	27-09-2003 01:34									#25
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I was 14-24 in the 1990's so they were prime getting laid time for the entire second half of the decade. The 2000's aren't looking to bad though.

	27-09-2003 01:36									#26
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Eh, all I remember about the eighties was really good cartoons on TV and pretty much everything else sucked from the POV of a five-year-old. But Clinton was better than either Bush, that's for sure.

	27-09-2003 02:19									#27
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The 90s was a time when everything went right, and the Dream was working at its finest. It didn't matter how useless you really were, but as evidenced by thousands of dot com scammers pioneers, any dream you had could come true and get $200 million of VC to back it up.

Ahh, those were the days...if only we could throw money about like that now

Socially, we were ever progressive. Acceptance for differences was finally settling in, and people were starting to be truly free. Political correctness fascists weren't good, but...oh, who am I kidding, we're always going to be savages anyways.

	27-09-2003 22:19									#28
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Let's be realistic. The 90s were OK only compared to the 70s and the 80s, but really they were nothing to jump up and down about. Wages went up but only for a select few, and only by a small margin. Besides that things didn't get much better. Now in this decade things look like crap again. I see no sign of things going back to the way they were for that short period. I still see a long run trend which maybe started in the 70s, but maybe it started in the 20s. That trend is flat and decreasing wages and and increasing unemployment rate in the US.

	27-09-2003 23:59									#29
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In Ireland the 90's were a wonderland, when the country went from being effectively second world to being richer (on a per capita basis) than the UK.

Unfortunately it was definitely an anomaly. At least, if it was not then Ireland is destined to be the next superpower, which is a fun position to argue but not too likely.

	28-09-2003 00:46									#30
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There was a lot of speculation in the late 90's. It was funny money prosperity. The oil situation and the end of the Cold War were real factors that caused prosperity. The dotcom silliness was silliness. You can't make that come back. Nor would you want to. In the end, the dotcom boom was very wasteful.