27-09-2003 02:35									#1
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http://www.canada.com/national/stor...5B-78BDDAD0A5F1

Emissaries from the Canadian Alliance and Progressive Conservatives have reached an agreement in principle to found a new party, and it now appears a movement is afoot to install former Ontario premier Mike Harris as leader.

Organizers from the federal and Ontario Conservative parties confirmed that Harris supporters have been quietly laying the groundwork for a run at leading a united right once a deal is reached to dissolve the Alliance and Tories and found a new party.

And that agreement may now be at hand. In Ottawa, Alliance leader Stephen Harper said he expects to receive a compromise proposal from his representatives and the Tory emissaries "before the end of the week."

"My understanding is there is an agreement in principle, it's a matter of our representatives coming to finalizing that effort," he said. "I'll make a decision shortly after I get the final conclusions of the discussions ... to get an agreement both sides eventually have to make their decisions to sign off, and I don't know what the Tory timeline is on that."

Conservative leader Peter MacKay struck a far less strident tone than on Wednesday, when he blasted the Alliance for purportedly leaking details of the negotiations to the press

"I can tell you the emissaries are doing great work ... I'm confident in the emissary process, I'm confident in the people I have representing me at that table, and we're going to take a very strong and serious look at this," he said.

Mr. Harper doesn't anticipate any further talks, and suggested a meeting scheduled for next week between the emissaries -- former federal finance minister Don Mazankowski, ex-Ontario premier Bill Davis, and Conservative MP Loyola Hearn for the Tories, ex-Reform MP Ray Speaker, Senator Gerry St-Germain and MP Scott Reid for the Alliance -- will simply formalize the agreement.

"I don't think the public wants an endless soap opera, there's been some good discussions over the three months, I think most of the issues have been thoroughly addressed," he said.

Mr. Harper said. "It's time for the parties to make their positions known and take their decisions," Mr. Harper said.

If the two parties are able to reach an agreement, it will first be presented to their respective caucuses, then submitted to the general membership.

Mr. Harper said it would then take three or four weeks "to get some details out to them and get some mechanism whereby they can send back their support or opposition".

It's then hoped a new leader could be in place either late this year or early in 2004.

But before any of that happens, Mr. MacKay has to get his caucus on side.

"Are people nervous about it? Are they concerned? By all means, this is their livelihood ... clearly I'm going to need caucus support for this. And so this is a (multi-tier) process that's got to be in place before we're going to be able to proceed," Mr. MacKay said.

While both leaders are preoccupied with stickhandling a deal, the buzz surrounding a Harris candidacy is intensifying.

The former Ontario premier was in Ottawa on Wednesday night, and, after being sighted by a journalist, said he is "not disinterested" in making the leap into federal politics.

A former adviser said Mr. Harris doesn't want to sour the unite-the-right discussions by leaping into the fray too soon, and that he has limited interest in getting involved until the process for merging the parties is under way.

The unite-the-right negotiations have become the hot topic among Tories across the country, and Mr. Harris is likely to fuel more speculation when he plays golf with Alberta Premier Ralph Klein today.

Mr. Harris gave a speech in Banff at the Global Economic Forum last night, and was to meet with Mr. Klein afterward.

Speaking to reporters earlier in the day, Mr. Klein came out in support of the principle of consolidating Canada's right-of-centre political parties, and suggested Mr. Harris would be a good choice to lead the new entity.

"The Klein-Harris axis is pretty well known, and given what's happened in Ontario lately, I think Mike knows he can't go it alone, he needs allies in other parts of the country," said an Ontario Tory close to Mr. Harris.

With the Ontario Tory election campaign floundering, many of the same people who were urging Mr. Harris to run for the federal Tory leadership earlier this year have renewed contact and turned their energies toward having him enter the race to lead the new party.

Alliance officials said it will indeed be a race, and that Mr. Harper would run, despite rumours in many Tory circles that he isn't keen on staying in Ottawa.

Factions within the Alliance and the federal Tories are lukewarm to Mr. Harris, and some privately doubt he's ripe for a transition to the federal scene. But at the same time, the perception that an outside candidate is needed to galvanize the new party appears to be gaining steam in Tory circles.

"Whenever you have a candidate of that calibre, it gives you the chance to avoid the perception that either Harper or MacKay have won out over the other. And Mike Harris would be a great choice," said one New Brunswick Tory.


Will we finally see a consolidated party on the right here in Canada? What should the party be called? What do you think the overall platform of this party will entail?

	27-09-2003 03:18									#2
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Wow. I did not expect them to actually be making progress on this. Hopefully, the article is just being overly optimistic.

I'll be making my first vote ever during the next federal election, and I had kept the PCs open as an option in the back of my mind, but there's no way in hell I'd vote for a United Right party.

Reasons for that:

1) Initially, it will obviously be dominated by the 'former'-Alliance fellows. Ick.
2) I would rather die than have Mike Harris be PM. I say, bring back Preston Manning! At least he had a quality about him.
3) I don't mind a party that's economically right-wing that much, but this part is almsot ensured to be socially right-wing, also. I'll miss the Joe Clark lefty-cons.

Overall, I think, a united right party will indeed prove beneficial to the Canadian right. You can draw in the easterners now that the Reform/Alliance "Evil West" mystique is gone... And the Harris-Klein axis might lead to an even broader support in Alberta (if that's even possible, the CA already controls almost every riding, except for a few in Redmonton, I think)... There are alot of Klein-freaks here.

Hell, the New Right might even have a chance of breaking into Quebec (I think Bachand is the only PC there at the moment?), which is a scary thought.

Maybe I'm being a bit too pessimistic, but I fear that this Unite the Right business might actually WORK. Yipes. I just think a lot of people are sick and tired of the Liberals, and I certainly can't see the NDP winning much. The Canadian left will have to start getting a little less complacent, and more vigilant, because the new right is definitely looking to pull a fast one on us.

But, all things considered, Martin will probably be able to convince Ontario that he is a change from Chretien, and that'll be enough to ensure a few more terms of Liberal status quo. Which is all right, I guess.

**********

quote: Will we finally see a consolidated party on the right here in Canada? What should the party be called? What do you think the overall platform of this party will entail?

1. I think it might just happen. Maybe.
2. "The Guys Who Aren't Liberals Or Commie Pinkos"
3. Overall Platform? Hmmm... Conservative monetary policy... Against gay marriage... Tax breaks (to someone, I don't know who)... Your basic Alliance ****ery, just toned down a bit by the weak-but-still-alive PCers.

	27-09-2003 03:24									#3
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Finally. Hopefully they won't let that *cking idiot of a jowel wiggling dinosaur Joe Clark in the party. He can pathetically use his hot daughter to door campaign as a washed up independent, from now on.

	27-09-2003 03:33									#4
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cinch:

quote: I say, bring back Preston Manning! At least he had a quality about him.

Why do you think I titled the thread the way I did? That's what Manning used to call the party uniting the right on Royal Canadian Air Farce.

Trouble is that he probably would not accept even if offered the job. I think he likes being retired from politics.

quote: 1) Initially, it will obviously be dominated by the 'former'-Alliance fellows. Ick.

Better than voting for the Liberals?

quote: I don't mind a party that's economically right-wing that much, but this part is almsot ensured to be socially right-wing, also. I'll miss the Joe Clark lefty-cons.

They'll probably join either the NDP or the Liberals, depending on their tastes.

quote: Martin will probably be able to convince Ontario that he is a change from Chretien

He was a cabinet minister for 10 years. I'd call that a masterful campaign especially against someone like Mike Harris, if he can convince those folks in Ontario. Remember that there were many Ontario seats where the Liberals did not get a majority, but won because of the vote split between the Conservatives and the Alliance parties.

quote: 2. "The Guys Who Aren't Liberals Or Commie Pinkos"

	27-09-2003 05:18									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi a movement is afoot to install former Ontario premier Mike Harris as leader.

Wow, they are actually planning to fail in their third attempt to get votes in Ontario from the start.

quote: Speaking to reporters earlier in the day, Mr. Klein came out in support of the principle of consolidating Canada's right-of-centre political parties, and suggested Mr. Harris would be a good choice to lead the new entity.

Why not get Paul Martin to lead it? He's right-of-centre.

quote: "The Klein-Harris axis is pretty well known, and given what's happened in Ontario lately, I think Mike knows he can't go it alone, he needs allies in other parts of the country," said an Ontario Tory close to Mr. Harris.

Yes, the Harris Government of Ontario has happenned in Ontario lately.

quote: Will we finally see a consolidated party on the right here in Canada? What should the party be called? What do you think the overall platform of this party will entail?

Since when does the right have a platform? I thought all they ever did was increase government tax revenue by cutting taxes to zero.

Anyways, with the Alliance on board, they can call themselves the Reactionary Conservatives.

	27-09-2003 05:26									#6
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quote: He's right-of-centre.

Since when did the NDP get to be the centre of Canadian politics? I don't consider him conservative, except for his fiscal policies.

quote: I thought all they ever did was increase government tax revenue by cutting taxes to zero.

Better than cutting back on social programs while raising taxes for 'legacy' projects.

quote: Anyways, with the Alliance on board, they can call themselves the Reactionary Conservatives.

Makes more sense than the Progressive Conservatives ever did.

	27-09-2003 05:44									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Since when did the NDP get to be the centre of Canadian politics? I don't consider him conservative, except for his fiscal policies.

No, I am the centre. The NDP and Greens are to the left. The Liberals are to the right.

	27-09-2003 05:49									#8
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quote: No, I am the centre.

So Canadian politics revolves around you?

	27-09-2003 10:13									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Will we finally see a consolidated party on the right here in Canada? What should the party be called?

Leaders Organized to Systematically Encompass Right-wing Suppoters.

	27-09-2003 11:24									#10
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To be fair, the original proposed name change for the Reform party before they were the Canadian Alliance was the Conservative Reform Alliance Party.

Perhaps they will return to that acronym.

	27-09-2003 13:03									#11
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BRING BACK STOCKWELL DAY

He's even funnier then Dubbya !!!

	27-09-2003 13:06									#12
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Canadian Politics are hopeless.

	27-09-2003 13:34									#13
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Time to stir the waters again...We like the right fractured, the left unelectable, and the voters apathetic. It serves Our Plans for Canada nicely. The Alliance will have to be reminded that We are their true masters.

	27-09-2003 22:40									#14
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Which is why we need to introduce proportional representation. That way, the Consies and the Alleys will be able to form a coalition after being elected instead of trying to merge.

Of course, that also means that Newdemms and the Greens would also be able to do that.

	28-09-2003 01:21									#15
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quote: Which is why we need to introduce proportional representation. That way, the Consies and the Alleys will be able to form a coalition after being elected instead of trying to merge.

And having yogic flyers in the House of Commons will help how?

	28-09-2003 02:36									#16
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Cosmic peace and inner harmony.

And we propos will probably tell you that the way we have our system implemented there's a 4% barrier to keep the li'l uns out.

	28-09-2003 02:48									#17
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quote: And we propos will probably tell you that the way we have our system implemented there's a 4% barrier to keep the li'l uns out.

With 300 seats, you would need 0.3% of the total vote to get 1 seat in the house of parliament.

quote: In the 1993 and 1997 federal elections in Canada the Natural Law Party received up to 1% of the vote.

Or three seats in the House of Commons.

	28-09-2003 21:37									#18
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So? Representing the nutcases is better than having the representatives for moderates try to be extremists to get the extremist vote.

	29-09-2003 01:25									#19
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quote: than having the representatives for moderates try to be extremists to get the extremist vote.

Which moderate party calls for the use of yogic flyers to garner the Natural Law vote?

My point is that proportional representation is not really proportional representation. Where one sets the bar, whether at 4% or 20%, you cannot represent every voter equally, even though that is precisely what every PR system claims.

Both systems cut out the little guy, be it first past the post or PR, its just that PR has a better 'image' of being more democratic.

As for a coalition, coalitions greatly increase the instability of the government, particularly when there is significant vote splitting, as here in Canada.