27-09-2003 11:24									#1
	"Super growth strategy" worked Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hi all.

I'm an infrequent Civ2 player, and I'll be away from the game for awhile as I study for difficult exams. In order to get it out of my system, I played a full game on Prince level tonight. Unless I'm mistaken, Prince is the difficulty level in which the AI is uncrippled but doesn't cheat, while it receives material bonuses at King, Emperor, and Deity.

Markusf's "super growth strategy" posted at Civ2 Fanatics was the best approach I've yet discovered. I won the space race in A.D. 1915 against 3 other civs and max barbarian level with a score of 1306, "Conqueror". This was significant for me, since I've never won above Chieftain without enabling the cheat menu.

A few observations:
- During midgame, all AI opponents formed alliances to contain my expansion and traded all their tech. Unexpectedly, the world united against me as if the three AI players were one.
- After offering peace treaties, AIs would immediately send diplomats to steal tech from my nearest border city. Deploying a solid wall of units in a skirmish line out the city stopped the thieves cold. On the downside, I had to create three entertainers to reduce unrest (units outside city / interior fortress).
- Auto-settler (you say K-ing, I say King-ing) works really well in the midgame once you've hand-held the settlers through initial irrigation and road building.
- Auto-Build is smart about building units but makes some puzzling decisions about city improvements...do I really need SDI in every city when my enemies are still using muskets?

I'll keep checking the forums in the meantime. Thanks for reading, and remember...

My words are backed with BIRD SHOT!

	27-09-2003 18:11									#2
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A few replies to some of your comments, if you don't mind a few comments from a guy who's still learning myself...

quote: - During midgame, all AI opponents formed alliances to contain my expansion and traded all their tech. Unexpectedly, the world united against me as if the three AI players were one.

Did you, by any chance, happen to have a Supreme power rating? Once you get to be the strongest guy on the map, the AI will always start forming pacts against you. Still, if you can arrange it so they attack you (like putting and leaving Freights on critical Railroad junctions or subverting a few cities), they won't be able to call on their allies if they attack you.

quote: - After offering peace treaties, AIs would immediately send diplomats to steal tech from my nearest border city. Deploying a solid wall of units in a skirmish line out the city stopped the thieves cold. On the downside, I had to create three entertainers to reduce unrest (units outside city / interior fortress).

I usually build a few Spies here and there, then send them to my frontiers and bribe any units that cross their path. I usually try to stay close enough to their cities so that any bribed units become NONE's.

quote: - Auto-settler (you say K-ing, I say King-ing) works really well in the midgame once you've hand-held the settlers through initial irrigation and road building.

Usually it's better to personally handle your Settlers/Engineers than let the AI control them, or at least I think so. I have problems with the little guys running around doing dumb things (like building roads that lead nowhere and serve no other real purpose).

quote: - Auto-Build is smart about building units but makes some puzzling decisions about city improvements...do I really need SDI in every city when my enemies are still using muskets?

As in the case of Auto-settler, I think it's better if you manage everything yourself, no matter how tedious it may get.

As for the SDI, if you don't intend to build Manhattan Project (or let the AI build it either), its the biggest waste of production and money you can have.

Hope some of this helps. Thanks for hearing me out.

	27-09-2003 21:26									#3
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Welcome vaustein
Glad you can beat the game at Prince - now try King, then Emperor, then Deity -- the only real new problem is keeping on top of unhappiness - takes some practice but you will succeed.

Keep on civin'

	28-09-2003 07:01									#4
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Is the final score / rating typically higher for space race or world conquest? Also, is the AI any smarter above Prince?

	28-09-2003 07:47									#5
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On Deity they use spies much better.

Do you have MGE?

Don't use Autobuild or Autosetter. Your choices will be far superior to what the AI selects.

	28-09-2003 09:41									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vaustein Is the final score / rating typically higher for space race or world conquest? Also, is the AI any smarter above Prince?

Depends on how fast you conquer. Conquering the world late in the game on a large map (and consequently the AIs will be large) will probably get you a better score than a space victory. Very early conquest won't.

The AI isn't smarter on higher levels, but it does get advantages... like needing fewer shields to build things. Consequently the AI civs expand faster on higher levels.

	29-09-2003 14:13									#7
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I assume you know that you can send caravans to cities building wonders to "help things along" (and if you didn't then you do now! ), so it is just a choice of which wonders you really want, and which you can do without. The higher the level you play, the more important the "happy" wonders become. If you want a massive empire then the Hanging Gardens are important early on, then Michelangelo's Chapel and JS Bach's Cathedral. Look up SSC if you want to get ahead in science the easy way, and never forget to keep building caravans and making trade routes. Be aware that both diplomats and caravans have "amphibious" abilities: that is, they can move into a city directly from a boat in the same way marines can.
Depending upon the map you have then some wonders will be more useful than others: especially the sea wonders. You shouldn't ever need the Pyramids (celebrate your cities in republic/democracy to grow population), Great Wall, Eiffel Tower or Manhattan, and KRC is definitely optional. Leonardo's is good to have if you want to fight, along with Sun Tzu, but you should be able to get all or most of the late-game wonders ahead of the AI.
The major advantage humans have over the AI is that we know how to use caravans. Establishing a trade route early in the game will net you loads of cash, (most of) a free tech and a decent amount of extra trade arrows throughout the game. Building a wonder in one city and caravans in smaller cities around it means that they can all cooperate to build a wonder, while the single AI city has to build it from scratch.

The wisest players choose the way of the caravan young Jedi - have your name written in the annals of Civilization!

	29-09-2003 18:17									#8
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The only time it's good to automate settlers is when you're in a large expanse with no water near by. Auto settlers don't need water to irrigate.

	29-09-2003 18:34									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Welcome vaustein Glad you can beat the game at Prince - now try King, then Emperor, then Deity.

Welcome indeed!

Re the above quote from SG -- Do not pass Go, do not waste your time on the interim levels.
GO STRAIGHT TO DEITY!

Just remember...
1. Happiness
2. Trade
3. Win -- AC or conquest, your choice.

I see you used markusf's strat document. Have you visited the Great Library here? There are MANY highly informative articles, generally very readable. You'll soon be winning at Deity and will never look back!

	29-09-2003 19:01									#10
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The Great Library (in the Civ2 Strategy forum)

	30-09-2003 05:46									#11
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The value of Pyramids in an early landing context at Deity is still a matter of some debate. Slow Thinker used Pyramids brilliantly but very unusually in his EL game, first of all to get the cities to size 3 at maximum speed. Afterwards, his size 5 cities with pyramids could eat up half a food box worth of turns with all citizens set to scientists (Xinning). When you consider that Masonry is on the way to Construction (Aqueduct), it may be that the Pyramids are currently undervalued at Apolyton.

	30-09-2003 11:06									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Grigor it may be that the Pyramids are currently undervalued at Apolyton.

I'm certainly one of those that does not value the Pyramids at Deity level. The problem is the unhapiness caused by too rapid growth. Even at size 3 you need a temple (or a second martial law unit) and at size 4 you need mysticism (or another martial law unit). A city on a well choosen site grows quite fast enough. If one of them needs some extra help, build a granary.

RJM at Sleeper's

	30-09-2003 14:03									#13
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Vaustein is also looking for help on beating the AI and raising his game generally, not on how to land early. Let them walk before they run!

I agree with rjm on the Pyramids. I prefer to capture them once I've got a couple of happy wonders so that cities needing a boost on reaching celebration size will get one. Although if you have a decent production city in celebration then you can just churn out a settler per turn and grow all your new cities up to 3.

	30-09-2003 22:58									#14
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The best teacher is MP. Once you can hold your own in MP, SP is easy. You learn how to win without all the good wonders(especially the happy wonders), having to defend against coordinated attacks, attacking positions that are actually defended, exisiting without a technology advantage, defending opponents that know how to use naval and air unit, and how devestating a smart corp of diplo/spies can be when used against you.

After that, the SP will never be hard again.

	01-10-2003 04:37									#15
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quote: Originally posted by rah After that, the SP will never be hard again.

...setting up MP games on the other hand will become the hardest part of the game

	02-10-2003 13:19									#16
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I sort of remember the time when I improved on difficulty levels on a weekly basis.

MP did teach me quite a bit, but not too much.

After not playing the game in quite some time I tried a deity game as the Chinese on world_m. I was fooked by the Indians

	02-10-2003 17:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk ...setting up MP games on the other hand will become the hardest part of the game

Yep.

	02-10-2003 17:33									#18
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Doesn't he speak the truth.

	02-10-2003 22:35									#19
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Join us and find out. You know where to look. The time difference shouldn't present too much of an inconvenience.

	04-10-2003 15:06									#20
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It has been before and it will be again... not nowadays though, that I'm a uni student means I have loads of time

	05-10-2003 05:17									#21
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Enjoy it while you can.

	06-10-2003 04:39									#22
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It could be my memory failing(Lord knows everything else is ) but I recall setting up games was as easy pie or ICQ.

Continuing and finishing was the hard part.A finished Civ2 game with more than 2 players was a Holy Grail of sorts...but I'm outta the loop.Maybe things have changed...... [hopeful/]

	09-10-2003 17:15									#23
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A few of the diehards aren't around as much so it's a bit harder to set up ad hoc games of greater than 3 people.
More scheduling is required than in the old days where you could just check ICQ and see a handful of players ready to go at a moments notice.