19-06-2000 20:55									#1
	To Stefan Hartel if he's still around Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I need a hint about Sassanid archers: i read somewhere on the net you're an "Iranian" expert, can you help me to find a picture of it ?

	22-06-2000 22:05									#2
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Stefan, if you're here keep on whistling...

	23-06-2000 01:06									#3
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I was in Berlin for the past three days.

Sassanian archers: Let's see...
The Sassanians made three basic types of images in which you might find warriors: Coins, plates and bas-reliefs.
I found following things: A modern reconstruction of a Sassanian (or Parthian) bas-relief showing an archer. Several silver plates showing Sassanian kings shooting animals from horses with bows, a Persian guy shooting wild boars with a bow on a bas-relief. I only had the chance to look into three books right now, if you give me a bit more time, I'm sure I can find something more satisfying.

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	23-06-2000 01:39									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

A bas-relief? Are you referring to Naqs-i-Rustam Sassanids add-ones? Mmmmmh, i can search them on the Net ... By the way, thanks a lot, Stefan!!! "Se beccamo"....
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 22, 2000).]

	24-06-2000 00:14									#5
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I was reffering to Tang-i Sarvak, but that is entirely Parthian. Nevertheless, since both were Iranian, I guess they didnot look all THAT different. You'd only have to change the hairstyle, though both were very similar (however, I have noticed that the archer carries a bashlik, which I haven't found on any sasanian images).

There were two Sasanian bas-reliefs in Naqsh-e Rostam, both more or less below the tomb of Dareios the Great. The first one is from the time of Ardaxsir I, a beautiful bas-relief, you can even see the king's crown, but entirely peacefully. The second one was made as a triumph of Shabuhr I, to mark the victory over the Romans and the caption of Valerianus. No archers here either.
I can send you B/W images of both as well as the reconstruction of the Parthian one.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	24-06-2000 00:30									#6
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Dont worry, Stefan!!!
I've found instead a Roman pottery collection, depicting Sassanids as well as Parthian HEAVY HORSE CHAVALRY AND ARCHERS - all on a book; they were not so different each other as i thought before, so... just smile!!! I think i've nearly solved my problems --> What do you think about setting as Sassanid archer basic unit a 2 movement mounted one?

	24-06-2000 15:10									#7
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Is there any chance that you can mail me that picture? Thanks.

A couple of tips:

Well, what you must note is that the archers themselves were used only for the battle opening. That is, they shot their arrows first before the main part of the army attacked (just like in almost every army).
Close combat was, just like in Achaemenian times, the weak point of the army. Remember that! The "light" cavalry (the one without bows and arrows) played only a supporting role. I think that just like in Achaemenian times, the mounted archers were the strong point of the army.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	24-06-2000 15:46									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Please, Prometeus, can you send me this pic, too? Thank you!

	24-06-2000 18:02									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And me, too please! Not that I'm interested in any way, I just want to fit in!

	24-06-2000 23:46									#10
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Thanks, Stefan!!!
The Suren's trick at Carrae's battle - a complete arrow supply for his mounted archers - was the only one performed by an iranian general, as i could check for my books... right?

Ah, forgot the picture: i'm currently working on it... a few details to draw an it'll be ready ( in two or three days - i haven't had too much spare time last days!!! ).
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 24, 2000).]

	25-06-2000 01:32									#11
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Yeah, but Carrhae was in 53 BC, during Arsacid (Parthian) times, when that ******* Crassus broke the treaty the Romans and Parthians had finally signed.
Oh well, Caesar would've broken that anyways- it was one of his last plans.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	25-06-2000 08:16									#12
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I knew it... just checking!!!
Although Suren served Partian kings, he was born in Sacasatene ( Sistan ); that's why i referred to him as iranian and not as partian.
By the way, Partian expedition should have to come after the Dacian expedition ( Dacian King Burebista offered his help to Pompeus during the Civil War )...

	25-06-2000 14:48									#13
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Well, the Parthians were Iranians too- I guess you mean them not being Persian.

Further, Suren wasn't Persian either. He was born in Sistan, as you said, but Sistan was the Seleucid and Arsacid description for Areia and Drangiana, two central Iranian provinces. These were some of the few territories that were firmly under both Seleucid and Arsacid rule. Persia, Elam, Armenia and several others were Vassals of both. Thus, Persia itself had never been under foreign rule except for the decades of Macedonian occupation.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	26-06-2000 09:46									#14
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Damn... IRANIC, IRANIC, IRANIC *!!!
I failed to express myself again .
I really need more english practice !!!

P.S. I'm not an "high mountain" in english so let me explain... in italian IRANIAN is referred to any kind of people who lives in Iran ( including non-iranic people ), IRANIC to any kind of people speaking an iranian language ( languages including Afghans, Beluci, Kurds, but also dead ones like Scites, Sarmats, Saci --> Sacastene-Seistan comes from here ).
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 25, 2000).]