28-09-2003 03:24									#1
	CGN Claim of GWT "Treachery" Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have just received the following from the CGN Ambassador:

quote: Ambassador Arnelos, It comes with deep regret that I must inform you on a tragic and disspecable event that has fallen apon us. I have enclosed screen shots as a demonstration of the Webringen Treachery. With no war declaration the webringen willfully, and delebrately attacked and defeated our noble horseman in neutral territory. Thier mission was one of exploration and surveying of the terrian. Surely the webs, with all thier might, couldn't have taken two lonely horsemen as a threat? These screen shots clearly show the fact that all of our units were clearly outside their territory. The units that they attacked are in the picture titled "attacked"As you can see they were not within their (GWT) borders and were obviously preparing to load on the galley. The other units they have brought to your attention are also well outside their borders, as is demonstrated by the pic titled "army"and while the size of the divisions are large they are in a location that is more suited to forward reconnaissance than attacking. Respectfully, Grungy Netotalian Ambassador to Aploytonia

He also attached the following two images:





A number of spelling errors in his message, but we can probably forgive that

	28-09-2003 03:53									#2
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My response letter (just fluff):

quote: Ambassador Grungy, I thank you for your letter and the information provided about the Webringen attack contained therein. I find it an encouraging sign that Netatolia is willing to trust us with information such as this and see this as a potential sign that we can perhaps cooperate more closely in the future. I have passed your letter and attached information on to the Apolytonian Senate. While the government is currently hard at work on other issues, this will likely be discussed over the next few days in the Senate. I will remain in contact with yourself and your esteemed leader, Premier Miccofl, in the future should you have any need of us. Thank You. Ambassador Arnelos Apolyton

	28-09-2003 05:02									#3
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Some pertinent pieces of my chat with miccofl:

quote: Arnelos> So what are your plans for the war? GWT has attacked your units positioned near their territory... do you plan to simply hold your ground, or attack? Arnelos> I think either would be entirely reasonable, given the circumstances miccofl> We are debating that Arnelos> What do you think THEY are trying to do? Attacking a single horsemen in neutral territory seems a particularly petty way to start a war with the other powerhouse civ miccofl> that is an understatement miccofl> we will have to see what they do with their next turn, they seem to be a bit full of themselves Arnelos> Do you think they are prepared to actually march on and attempt to defeat your army or that they're army is either too busy elsewhere or not strong enough? Arnelos> *their miccofl> that is a good part of the ongoing debate Arnelos> becuase it seems rather inane for them to attack at all unless they believe they can take you miccofl> They are expecting us to accept peace if we are to believe their communication miccofl> but only if we move back Arnelos> so, in essence, they attacked in order to tell you to "back off" from the border? miccofl> that is the gist of it Arnelos> you'd think they'd have something substantial to back that up, though miccofl> it wouldn't have pissed us off half as bad if we weren't going to load those horses and step back from their border Arnelos> did they kill both? miccofl> I don't see how we can do that now though miccofl> yes Arnelos> hmm Arnelos> but they haven't attacked your main army? miccofl> would you? Arnelos> depends on what they HAVE... that's my point miccofl> We have seen archers, horsemen, many pikes and a few MI - most are regulars miccofl> They would have to provide significant compensation before we could accept peace at this time Arnelos> how much do you think would be enough? miccofl> given the nature of the attack I don't think we could accept less than 500 gold each Arnelos> woah miccofl> but all things are subject to a vote Arnelos> of course miccofl> So what is Apolytonia's official stance on this conflict? Arnelos> nothing yet Arnelos> I've passed it on to the SEnate Arnelos> but we're currently doing our turnchat Arnelos> are you planning to send your expectations of what you need before peace to GWT? miccofl> I'm going to leave that desicion up to the Minister of State miccofl> personally I would rather rewrite my war declaration to the Grenouile and send that - but that is my opinion miccofl> they are threatening to get me a rabies shot

	28-09-2003 13:10									#4
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That's quite some CGN units in the neutral territory. And a worker, probably indicating that their border is nearby.

Anyone care to tell us what units they are, exactly?? It's kinda hard to make out.

"No!" to spelling errors!

	28-09-2003 17:25									#5
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All I can see are 2sword,worker,2horse and of course that nice innocent army. Clearly at least least this was not treachery on GWT part. I myself in their position would have attacked, but I wouldn't have just attacked the horse. If you attack you should go all out.

IMHO what we have here isn't a fight to the death but 2 tom cats growling and hissing at each other. Their goals, and I belive this is correct for both sides, is to establish dominance not to destroy each other. Of course this view only comes by looking at a very very small snapshot of the whole area and could be entirely wrong.
Aggie

	28-09-2003 17:40									#6
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Aggie,

I fully agree with your assessment. Neither team seems entirely intent on committing to a full-scale invasion of the other one after spending as much time and as many resources as they have subduing Grenoule and Firaxis (respectively). They probably both realize that they have relative military parity with the other side.

See, that's precisely why I find GWT's attack on the 2 horsemen, but NOT isolated units around that CGN army rather odd. If they were going to take down the 2 horsemen, why not some other isolated units while they're at it? Of course, it's entirely possible that they may YET attempt to do this.

As for CGN, they moved these forces to on top of the GWT border in the first place, so I agree that they have little right to cry foul when GWT first complained and then attacked. CGN was almost certainly attempting to provoke GWT on purpose. The reason for them doing so is what escapes me without being able to see more of the situation.

Both sides, while mad as hell at the other, seem more focused on what the other side needs to do in order to be worthy of a cease fire than seemingly on plans for immediate full-scale assault.

I wonder if this incident will prompt either or both of them to switch production in the home territories from improvements and REX to military units, however...

	28-09-2003 19:39									#7
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Hissing and growling or preparing for full-scale war, I give it:



for Apolyton.

	28-09-2003 23:37									#8
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I think GWT killed the horses to show of their authoritha and scare of the CGN units from the border area.
I can't say I'm against GWT doing this, because the CGN are clearly trying to provoke GWT by moving so many units about so close to GWT land, maybe they are even planning a new city in the area.
But of course they should have warned CGN first.

	28-09-2003 23:49									#9
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As said earlier in this thread, they're both trying to establish dominance so I wouldn't say that GWT is any more "righteous" in this than CGN. GWT has a ton of units up north which may be why they're not launching a full scale invasion... Horses on flat land are a lot easier to kill than Swords or Spears on mountains or hills.