28-09-2003 19:28									#1
	Times for the next war turnchats Support Apolyton

EDIT: Turn 122 to be played around 0300 GMT Wednesday

1600EDT

=0600 (6am) Athens, Beirut, Jerusalem
=0500 (5am) Paris, Berlin, Prague
=0400 (4am) London
=0000 (12pm) Rio de Janeiro
=2300 (11pm) New York, Montreal, Washington DC
=2200 (10pm) Chicago, Houston, New Orleans, Indianapolis, Mexico City
=2100 (9pm) Denver, Edmonton
=2000 (8pm) Los Angeles, San Francisco
=1500 (3pm Sunday) Wellington - Consul WIA's time


This is a time at least two Consuls (BF and I) should be able to make it, as well as Trip.

There are some things to pin down:

• this turn we pillage GCA's Iron at Dun Na Anarchy. Do we attack Dun Na with the Vet Sword this turn, wait until next turn or sit it out on the Mountain?
  
• In the face of GCA's disbanding of Elucid do we combine stacks and go on to Random Outpost, missing out IDG, or do we keep the stacks split, advance on both cities ready for an assault and combine them if IDG is abandoned?
  

As these may not be finalised by the chat, please think over them if you plan to attend.


We now return to the old post....



Since these war turns are so important to the team, and some more discussion than usual will go on in the course of turnplay, it would be nice to have as many of the team members in chat for the turnplays as possible.

However, it may not be possible to give as much warning as for the start-of-the-war chat, turn 121. This is partly because there are only the two Consuls at present, in very different timezones. Steps are underway to see if we can rectify this with a stopgap.
In the meantime, I ask that the team please have a little patience with the Consuls for the moment. We aim not to rush the turn, but to get as many people there as possible, so we may be playing the turns as much as 12-16 hours after they arrive.

There are several things we need to consider before playing turns right now.

1. orders are finished, or can be finished in chat by Trip, E_T and, where applicable, by Togas and the FAM crew.
2. At least two people who can play the save are present for the save playing. There were problems in the latest chat that suggest two Consuls may be a good idea to avoid time issues of one of them and burn-out (this IS a stressful job at times!). BF and I will be collaborating on playing at the same time, which I imagine will be sometime in the region of 0000 GMT = 0800 GMT (sorry Europeans!) simply from the fact that we both have time around then. Trip will likely need to be about as well, and maybe E_T.

I want to reassure everyone we will do our damnedest to let you all know with some warning, and as soon as a time is worked out, we will post the time.

Since at times it may not be possible for both BF and I to be there simultaneously, what does everyone think of allowing Trip the ability to play the turn as well, proivided at least one Consul is about? The complications result mostly from the detailed MoW orders, so it makes some sense to have his involvement to this level for the start of the war, at least.

If anyone else has any ideas on what you would see us doing for the upcoming 10 or so turns, TELL ME! Fortunately we have bags of time in the counter, so we can afford to spend a bit of it on crucial turns like the current ones.

Thanks for your patience, and I hope to see lots of helpful discussions - this is a great time to get into the nuts and bolts of the game, and an extremely exciting one.

Last edited by MrWhereItsAt on 30-09-2003 at 09:38

	28-09-2003 23:40									#2
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Poor Trip. He has to stay up in the night then!

	29-09-2003 00:21									#3
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Trip basically plays the turn already, from what I can see. So appointing him as deputy Consul while nye is gone is more of a formality than anything else. Plus, he should have his hands full with military matters.

We need someone else. I propose Master Zen (if for no other reason to put an end to his rants!).


Dominae

	29-09-2003 00:22									#4
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I have no objections that in time of war, Trip be able to play the turns.

	29-09-2003 00:24									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae We need someone else. I propose Master Zen (if for no other reason to put an end to his rants!).

I'd do it, no problem

I just wouldn't understand why the chain of command would go from MoW to Deputy FAM... (unless I was appointed vice-Consul in nye's abscense)

	29-09-2003 00:28									#6
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I should be able to help out with the turn, though there are certain times when I won't be able to stop by so hopefully MZ will be able to help out then.

	29-09-2003 00:34									#7
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Last I heard, the Ministers were not in the chain of command, but were simply advisors. The next step up from Citizen is Consul, which is a good way of doing things, IMO.


Dominae

	29-09-2003 01:38									#8
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I can basically make it any time, so any time is fine with me(I don't know about giving MWIA this kind of freedom, last time only unortho could make it those hours).
Aggie

	29-09-2003 02:16									#9
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Times that I CAN possibly Attend:

All times are EDT
Mon-Wends 6PM to 11PM
Thurs 6PM to 10PM
Friday 3PM to 10PM
Sat Noon to Midnight
Sun All day until 11PM

Just to let everyone know, I work 4-10 hour days, getting up at 4:15AM and getting home around 5:30PM (35 mile 1 way drive). Everyother Thursday is 1 hour earlier. Fridays is Mandatory 8 hour OT where I get up at 3:15 and get home around 3PM. Saturdays are Voluntary max 6 hour OT, from 3:15 wake time to getting home around Noon. THen there is sleep, dinner, RL and other things that take my time.

I will try to get things posted for the turn ahead, but I can not always attend. And with the possiblity of a GA coming between turns, I can't fully Predict the WF settings that are needed. I can be certain about the worker actions, but not the builds right now.

If Dom or Panzer can be in my place, if it's when I'm not available, then that will be good.

MoI E_T

	29-09-2003 06:05									#10
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Please see the thread nye posted about making Arnelos his replacement during his time away from us for personal reasons.

I am hoping we can find a time that two Consuls, Trip and at least one of E_T or Dom can be in the chat at once, even for a few hours. It may not be possible all the time however, so having posted orders to the greatest degree possible may be the best that can be managed at times.

	29-09-2003 10:09									#11
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My timezone is GMT-7 (Mountain Standard Time, MST), for reference.

I'm probably least available from around 1500 GMT to 2100 GMT, but it's possible that I can be available if I can schedule things around it ahead of time.

	30-09-2003 09:39									#12
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Updated with turn 122 time.

	30-09-2003 09:48									#13
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I might be able to make the chat for an hour or so.

As to my thoughts on the updated post 1...I think we should pillage and sit on the mountain. If there is only one defender in the town then it's better to have two attackers the same turn in case the first one goes down. Otherwise the defender will very likely be at full strength the next turn.

Regarding AGA and AGB I think we should keep them split for now. We can cover more ground that way. If they continue scorched earth we can rejoin the groups and have a stack of doom. As long as we keep lookouts so they don't try some end around maneuver to get at our cities while we're striking at theirs.

	30-09-2003 10:14									#14
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If we wait another turn, there may be more defender's....He who hesitates is lost....

It's a small gamble on a large payoff.

	30-09-2003 10:49									#15
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i agreed, maybe we should :

Attack Dun with First Sword.
if 1st Sword win, take the City - GREAT ! 2nd Sword move into Dun.
if 1st Sword win, another Spear appear, 2nd Sword cut Iron.
if 1st Sword lost, another Spear appear, 2nd Sword cut Iron
if 1st Sword lost, the same Spear is there, but with just 1 or 2 Hp left, the 2nd Sword attack Dun.

If we take the City, it's actually better to raze the City then allowing GCA to recapture and produce Military Unit from there.

	30-09-2003 11:03									#16
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Hmmm. If they thought there was a chance to lose it, don't we think it would be rubble now?

	30-09-2003 11:26									#17
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Hmmm. If they thought there was a chance to lose it, don't we think it would be rubble now?

Hm .... why i never think of this.
Well. at the end of the day, it comes to what is the best use of the 2 Swords. Sword vs Spearmen on Grassland without Walls (Dun) is a pretty good bet.

	30-09-2003 11:56									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Hmmm. If they thought there was a chance to lose it, don't we think it would be rubble now?

Actually, I believe if there were Horsemen/Swordsmen there they would have attacked us and won somehow!

It could be that the city is producing a Swordsmen this turn and they took the chance that it would complete this next turn and that our attack, if we attack, would be unsuccessful. If they disband it, they lose that chance.

Or, that they know we have no chance at holding that city once we take it. And that they have a very god chance at getting it back on the very next turn, so why disband it? Yes, they mayfigure we might disband it, but it is still beter that we did it than they did it to themselves...especialy a city with low corruption and waste.

How much do we risk attacking with the Vet? Not very much since we will be pillaging the Iron anyhow. We might bet them to waste on more turn with an attacking unit on 2 Swords on that Mountin, and with their Luck, that would be it. They would then just rebuild the road.

If we took and razed the city, it sets them back even further; especially if they have any workers or settlers in there.

	30-09-2003 17:00									#19
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Still risky - if we lost them Swords, or even ONE sword, it gives them freedom, or a better chance, of removing our presence there. If they do that there is no chance we can stop them reconnecting that Iron. If we take the city we either raze it and then have to move back to the Mountain (again risking our prsence there), or try (probably with little success) to defend it. This is smack in the middle of their heartland, where troops from the CFC war can get to shortly (and they had a helluva lot more than just a couple of Swords there), and where their current turtling will take them.

I think of these two Swords as guerilla troops - theirs is to stay in defensive terrain and be irritating as hell for the enemy, yet avoid major engagements, wehre they will likely be outclassed. Our advantage is we have nothing to risk with them. If we get the city we risk either the city (and our gold) if we take it, or the guerilla force if we raze it. I think we should just pillage and fortify this turn. and keep the enemy worrying what we will hit next, giving them that much less of an option, and that much more to constantly worry about.

	30-09-2003 18:19									#20
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GMT 3:00 on Wednesday: Please note that it'll still be Tuesday in the USA, and it'll not be Sunday in NZ.

	30-09-2003 19:18									#21
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I believe that the optimal thing to do is to, first and foremost, PLUNDER that mountain tile. At the very worst, they'll still take several turns re-building the road.

As for whether we attack the city with the other swordsman, that's entirely optional. I'm of the opinion that we fortify the other sword this turn and force them to come to us, but if everyone feels that killing their production in Anarchy is more critical, so be it.

	30-09-2003 20:11									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As for taking the city and razing it without pilliging the road to the Iron is a possible mistake. We know that they just resently have built other settlers and they would then be able to just rebuild and it's instantly reconnected.

Pillage and Fortify is the best coarse for now.

E_T

	30-09-2003 20:40									#23
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Premove Intelligence:

Not only did GCA abandon Rye and killed 1 NM, but they have also pillaged 2 of the roads. So we know that they have a minimum of 3 horses in the area.

E_T

	30-09-2003 20:48									#24
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quote: Originally posted by E_T As for taking the city and razing it without pilliging the road to the Iron is a possible mistake. We know that they just resently have built other settlers and they would then be able to just rebuild and it's instantly reconnected. Pillage and Fortify is the best coarse for now. E_T

Agreed, but it's an option to go for the best of both worlds: one swordsman attacks. If he wins, and there are no more units in the city, the other swordsman moves in, takes the city, moves back and pillages the iron (this can all be done in one turn, right?). We then abandon the city.

	30-09-2003 21:18									#25
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if the swordman wins, he'll enter the city automatically

	01-10-2003 04:39									#26
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Just to clarify - we will raze the road this turn no matter WHAT.