30-09-2003 05:43									#1
	Public Release: Why we went to war on GCA Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Please note, we should not go call up our two new contacts and tell them why we're at war with GCA. However, it is going to be very obvious to them shortly and they are going to ask questions.

Once they do, the following explain(s) should suffice:

We needed to in order to have any chance of winning this game.

GCA is a very strong civ, very cunning and able to fight battles. They were able to fight, and defeat, two nations at once. We fear and respect their military might.

Eventually, we were going to fight if either of our teams were going to win, so we had to pick the most logical time to fight and fight them then.

That time came when we got Feudualism ahead of them. Our window opened when we got Feudalism and closed when they got it. THEIR window opened when they got Chivalry, which would be shortly thereafter.

We hit them now, just before they made it to the next age, and just before GWT could contact them and trade them the techs they needed to make the jump.

We do not hold them in comtempt or disregard. They were very honorable neighbors and traders, and we regret that we had to fight them, but this game is a competition between teams that involves combat between them.

War is a part of every civ game. All of the top civs in this game have high scores and success because of war. We must also do the same if we want to ever have a chance to compete.

Let us not make jokes or trash talk or make up lame excuses about how GCA "deserved" to be attacked or pretend that they "asked for it" or any other such nonsense. This war is not a punishment, it is an opportunity for Apolyton to become great by besting a very strong neighbor on the field of battle. We embrace this chance to prove our worth against a very able and intelligent foe. We enjoy a good contest and a good challange and hope that GCA lives up to their reputation.

--Togas

	30-09-2003 05:48									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sounds very noble. I can see other teams understanding this perfectly - and we are not lying for a moment.

However, do we want to mention to GWT one of the reasons for having the war NOW is that we wanted to prevent them from trading?

	30-09-2003 06:23									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt However, do we want to mention to GWT one of the reasons for having the war NOW is that we wanted to prevent them from trading?

Not to prevent them from trading, but we anticipated that once they met with GCA and finished their trades, we'd no longer have a tech advantage. We had to act when we did.

They can either respond to this in two ways:

1) True.

2) We would never have traded with GCA if it would have meant that our good friends Apolyton would suffer.

If they say "True", not a problem. They understand. If they go with #2, then we should thank them for being such good and true friends to Apolyton and thank them for not trading with GCA now that we are at war with them.

Either way is good.

--Togas

	30-09-2003 06:55									#4
	Remove this text

CGN knows that we are at war with GCA. It was pretty obvious from the looks of the WM and the length at which we held our turn. I felt it was approriate to let them know, though I did not discuss any details.

	30-09-2003 07:02									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

It is worth pointing out that GCA believes we have been planning a war against them the entire game.

This is not true, we have been planning a war against CDG the entire game. The simple reason for this is that we realized we could not win the game unless we took over (at the least) CDG's lands. This is one of the reasons we sought out GCA as a friend and ally.

The only reason GCA became the new target was that CDG lands were conquered by GCA. This left us with the option of either deciding to fight the larger and more powerful GCA in order to fulfill our plans to take CDG's lands or to resign ourselves to losing the game. We made the choice we felt would best enable us to remain competitive in the game.

We don't fault GCA for that, they had every right to conquer CDG. That said, their conquest of CDG is, ultimately, the reason why we are at war with GCA - not because we're upset with them, but simply because it means they're in the way of what we feel is our only path to remaining competitive.

We should write something along these lines, send it to the other teams, and post it to the UN when appropriate.

Last edited by Arnelos on 30-09-2003 at 07:37

	30-09-2003 07:24									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by BigFree CGN knows that we are at war with GCA. It was pretty obvious from the looks of the WM and the length at which we held our turn. I felt it was approriate to let them know, though I did not discuss any details.

Not to mention how long GCA took with theirs

Can you please post the log of the chat you had with miccofl?

	30-09-2003 07:38									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

GCA states that they've reported this to the UN. Where is said thread located? I've looked at the UN open forum, but nothing there...

	30-09-2003 07:41									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

By "reported to the UN", they probably just mean that they've whined to mongoose.

	30-09-2003 07:47									#9
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by BigFree CGN knows that we are at war with GCA. It was pretty obvious from the looks of the WM and the length at which we held our turn. I felt it was approriate to let them know, though I did not discuss any details.

The other reason I thought we should tell CGN as soon as possible is that Mongoose would probably tell CGN about the war before we had a chance anyway.

We've found out things about the other continent on more than one occassion thanks to his loose lips.

	30-09-2003 07:51									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit The other reason I thought we should tell CGN as soon as possible is that Mongoose would probably tell CGN about the war before we had a chance anyway. We've found out things about the other continent on more than one occassion thanks to his loose lips.

Good point. I wish we didn't have to worry about that...

	30-09-2003 09:18									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: The only reason GCA became the new target was that CDG lands were conquered by GCA. This left us with the option of either deciding to fight the larger and more powerful GCA in order to fulfill our plans to take CDG's lands or to resign ourselves to losing the game.

Not quite true ....

It wasnt because GCA conquered CDG, but because CDG gave us their cities.

CDG agreed to give us their cities, if we agreed to conquer GCA and not let them win the game. We saw an opportunity to get a few free cities, for a war we were planning on anyway.

We know this, CFC knows it, & CDG members knew it. Dont be surprised if CGA soon finds out about it.

Not quite honorable ... but I dont really care.


I agree with Togas .. dont take the high road or give any reasons other than...

We are attacking CGA, because it was opportunistic for us to do so, and we want to win the game.
(His version is better of course)

	30-09-2003 09:44									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well that IS another reason to, but we had resolved on attacking GCA before CDG swore us to do so. IT was just that our aims coincided there.

	30-09-2003 09:54									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I'm not saying we should take the high road. The point is that we were aiming to wipe out CDG. We switched targets to GCA when CDG was wiped out by GCA.

The fact that CDG gave us some cities and made us promise to do what we were already intending to do was just icing on the cake.

The real reason we're doing it is that we want that land, plain and simple. We would have attacked CDG if they still controlled it. We're only attacking GCA because they NOW are the ones in our way.

The war is not about who we are fighting, but rather what we intend to gain.

I don't think anyone will misconstrue that as us attempting to take the "high road"

	30-09-2003 10:55									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I'm not saying we should take the high road. The point is that we were aiming to wipe out CDG. We switched targets to GCA when CDG was wiped out by GCA.

Arnelos ..

Didnt mean to say that you were trying to .. or that anyone was.
It was just a general comment.

I know I quoted you .. but my comments were not directed at anyone specific



Anyway ...

My memory (which could be wrong because you can read threads all out of order), was that

The first time we talked serious about a war with GCA, was only when CDG offered cities.
It was mentioned that we were planning for a war anyway, so we might as well.
And that the deal did not mention any time frame, so we could decide later when to do it.

This time frame was chosen, only because we got Fuedalsim, and CFC was taking a beating.

If those 2 things didnt happen, there is a chance we could be still building now, and debating when would be the best time to strike.


It's a minor point .. And I dont really care about it.
My concern was that GCA will just use the information in some way, and we should be prepared if they did.

No big deal ...