22-06-2000 13:30									#1
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I don't know if this has been done before, but what if The Nazis had won World War 2?
I'm thinking of making such a scenario.

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[This message has been edited by Dracon (edited June 22, 2000).]

	23-06-2000 01:06									#2
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Err do you mean if the Nazi's won world two or if yhe Russians and Chinise won the cold war?

	23-06-2000 01:28									#3
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Sorry, I meant WW2 not WW3 I've changed it now.

	23-06-2000 02:00									#4
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A "what if" scenario? Cool!!!
Don't tell that to Fast Eddie...
or he'll scream!
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 22, 2000).]

	23-06-2000 02:16									#5
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Russia, Japan, Germany alliance, give them Russian and Germany tanks/Artillaries, Lufwaffer and Zeros, Japan's air carriers, German U-boats, and Soviet vet spies. German will research the A-bomb.

	23-06-2000 02:42									#6
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Fast Eddie:

What if? Gimme a break. What if Superman had come to kill hitler? It didn't happen. End of story.

Me:

It's been done but I don't care if it's fun. Give it a whirl.

	23-06-2000 04:25									#7
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What if Superman had come to kill hitler? It didn't happen. End of story.

What if Germans were defeated in 1942 by the Soviet Union like in Xin Yu's Red Front? The point of departure from real history is simply at an earlier point in a WI scenario.

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	23-06-2000 05:00									#8
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There was a book called 1945, which was supposed to have a sequel. You might check it for some units and ideas. It was supposed to have a second part, but I guess that's not happening.

Basically in it, Germany took Moscow and pushed Russia out of the war, though it is still led by Stalin. Britain is in bad shape. They lost a lot of their empire. America has already begun demilitarization again, but they are developing an atomic bomb, primarily at Oak Ridge. Hostilities begin anew when Hitler sends Otto Skorzeny to take out Oak Ridge. Germany has technological superiority, especially in planes. They can refuel in the air, have TV-guided bombs, and stuff.

	23-06-2000 11:34									#9
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Basically, it's the late nineties.

Civs:
Nazis
Soviets
Islamic Federation
Papal Federation
Scandinavian Confederacy
Spain
United Kingdom

Nazis and Soviets are the most powerful. UK Scandinavia and Spain are the weakest.
It is in the late Nineties, which means Nazism and Communism is well established in Europe. Papal federation arose after the fall of Mussolini, the Pope taking control of Italy and setting up a fundamentalist state. Muslims took control of most of North Africa, Turkey and Palestine setting up another Fundamentalist state.
This is all I've though about so far.
Any ideas?

	23-06-2000 19:40									#10
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How about just a scenario in the USA where the United States is fighting for it's freedom.

	23-06-2000 19:42									#11
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I have long considered doing a similar plotline, but have never had the chance. I guess you aren't going to focus on the entire world and thus we don't know what happened with the Empire of Japan?

	24-06-2000 00:28									#12
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There was a scenario I downloaded a long time ago. I can't remember its title, I think it it was something like "The soviet empire" or so. It was the same story based in the Pacific in 1946: Dday went wrong, no a-bombs etc. Japan was establishing along with the USSR. It was not much more than simply an advanced version of the "Eastwind, rain" scenario that came with the Bestonet from the CiC cd, and it wasn't very good. You can findit somewhere here: http://www.civ2.de.index3.html

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	24-06-2000 00:35									#13
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I'm just tired of World War II, I don't mind what if's as long as they don't require one helluva explanation.

IMHO, I just find it's more fun to try and make it so that the player has no choice but to do what was historically done.

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Say, I remember seeing this one movie set in the 60's where the Nazi's won WWII, and the US was about to sign a treaty with them to end the cold war (America vs. Germany) and this reporter guy exposed pictures of the concentration camps right before Kennedy signed the alliance. It was pretty damn cool.
[This message has been edited by Fast_Eddie (edited June 23, 2000).]

	24-06-2000 01:26									#14
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Yeah that film was called "Fartherland" and was based on the book of the same name (the book is much better BTW) it has also been done for radio.
Basicly there is a detecive in the Berin police force who investigates the murder of an important Nazi leader and is told to back off by his superiors but continues to investigate and with the help of an american reporter (played by miranda Richardson) discovers the truth about the concentration camps and the Russian war. Its a great film and I would advise anyone interested in "what if the germans had won world war 2" to go rent it (or better yet read the book which is much better and full of details)
Anyway that brings to a close C0ckneys film reviews hope you enjoyed it and see you again next week

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[This message has been edited by C0ckney (edited June 23, 2000).]

	24-06-2000 02:34									#15
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The movie kinda impressed me with the "what if" stuff, as it was very well researched. I also have the book (or better said,my parents have it) and I looked in it once. Excellently researched, really. I bet it's worth reading.

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

Our survival is based on continouus changing.
-Mao Tse-Tung
God might have created us as equals, but democracy and science pretty
much screwed that whole idea..
-Onepaul


Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

	25-06-2000 03:58									#17
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No...I was just responding to everyone else who appeared to mistake my dislike for WWII scenarios as a dislike for "what if" scenarios.

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	25-06-2000 09:01									#18
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The only problem that I see is that there's no way the Nazi government could stand until the 1990's. The atomic bomb made sure of that. And even if you asssume that the Nazis had atomic weapons as a deterrent, I don't think that Germany would behave as the USSR did in the situation - Germany would have a much greater ability to launch a nuclear strike, or conventional strike, than the USSR ever did. So by the 90's, either the US or Germany would be dead.

	25-06-2000 11:16									#19
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The USA basically is dead. By this time, even the UK (which is now just a grovelling client state of Germany) is moderately Fascist.

	03-07-2000 19:35									#20
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Islamic Federation (see above)? That still leaves Turkey, which is about as Islamic as an ex Soviet state- it's been that way since Ataturk in the '30s (watch Sleague for future scenario on that). Anyway- if you're doing 'what if' then you could always say that the UK stayed neutral, it would make it a lot neater.

	04-07-2000 22:13									#21
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Wasn't there already some scenario like this? It might be at Apolyton, it was called "New Axis" or something. It was Axis.scn IIRC.

	05-07-2000 04:16									#22
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Well, I've played a similar scenario called "The Reich" and it sucked! When the Capital fell there ended up being two American nations