01-10-2003 22:14									#1
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Blog shows chart of coalition combat deaths


Interesting.

On the one hand - deaths peaked in July, and seem to have begun a slow decline in August and September.

Caveats - too few data points to show a significant trend. And shows deaths only, not wounded, or number of attacks. And lots of debate about the impact of coalition operations - less facility guarding, but still lots of raids, at least one withdrawl from a hotspot.

And shows coalition deaths only, not impact of attacks on Iraqi police, UN, etc.

But as far as it goes - taking the daily casualty reports, and the often quoted totals for the post war period, and showing the trend over time, its interesting.

	01-10-2003 22:26									#2
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It is interesting, and like someone pointed out in the thread below the graph, if you remove the first two months, there doesn't seem to be any trends.

	01-10-2003 22:29									#3
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That is a major thing that I notice. The facts about Iraq and way different from the feel you get on the news. One Democratic congressman that went to Iraq and saw for him self what was really going on said that he believe things are getting better. I forgot his name though. He said that he thinks the reason for the reports in the news are so negitive is that the News media loves to report on violence and crime, since that what sells and gets ratings. The same with local news, since the most the report on is just local crime, and sometimes you get the feeling that it is a warzone out there when it is not.

I agree that is what it is. The media often does not report good news but bad news.

	01-10-2003 22:29									#4
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Definitely not enough 'data' (thankfully).

I wonder what the stats are on successful hot pursuit of the ambushers afterwards, do they get run down mostly or do they manage to melt back into the population more often?

	01-10-2003 22:31									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www He said that he thinks the reason for the reports in the news are so negitive is that the News media loves to report on violence and crime, since that what sells and gets ratings.

I think that's probably true, but the right certainly wasn't declaiming this when it suited their political agenda of tough-on-crime, longer prison terms, more cops, less rights, etc. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

	01-10-2003 22:34									#6
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I think that's probably true, but the right certainly wasn't declaiming this when it suited their political agenda of tough-on-crime, longer prison terms, more cops, less rights, etc. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Compared to Europe, we hear in the US do have higher crime rates. But the local news does over report still.

	01-10-2003 22:39									#7
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It's always fun to look at people's lives like it were data...

	01-10-2003 22:42									#8
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It is interesting, and like someone pointed out in the thread below the graph, if you remove the first two months, there doesn't seem to be any trends.

Yup. Though the guy you refer to was (apparently) using total deaths (both hostile and non-hostile) the month with the lowest combat deaths - May - was also the month with the highest non-combat deaths. and in august, when combat deaths were already declining, non-combat deaths were still increasing. So combat deaths only shows a sharper pattern than total deaths. Not sure if its statisically significant though. I suspect it still may not be.

	01-10-2003 22:48									#9
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I think that's probably true, but the right certainly wasn't declaiming this when it suited their political agenda of tough-on-crime, longer prison terms, more cops, less rights, etc. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

and of course in both cases the presses inability to use real life on the ground regional boundaries in place of political boundaries is a distortion. I know people afraid to go to Northwest Washington DC - cause of DC's high murder rate - when Upper Northwest has a murder rate of just about zero - compares well with any suburb. It looks like we have an urban crime problem - when we really have a social breakdown among the urban poor problem. Similarly in Iraq its taken months for the press to realize that what we have is a "sunni triangle" problem.

	02-10-2003 02:00									#10
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It is interesting, and like someone pointed out in the thread below the graph, if you remove the first two months, there doesn't seem to be any trends.

Yes, and on top of that only the "hostile" casualties are relevant to the arguement. Of course there are going to be few "friendly fire" incidents at this point.

	02-10-2003 02:05									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www Compared to Europe, we hear in the US do have higher crime rates. But the local news does over report still.

I am an American. Born and raised and still resident. Only left he U.S. three times for a grand total to two and half weeks total over the course of my 36.5 years.

As scared as we are of crime because of our media, I think most of the world would be scared to live here. When Israelis complain about the deaths from the al-Aqsa intifiada over the past few years, I'm like, "what, more people were murder in Chicago in the same three years, and thre's less people in Chicago." Israelis are whimps, I tell yeah.

	02-10-2003 02:13									#12
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That's well-known, Che. Our car accidents are a much bigger enemy than those pesky palestinians.


I am baffled by the number of non-combat deaths. WTF?

	02-10-2003 02:17									#13
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Two soliders died yesterday when their vehicle fell into a canal. Well, one's missing, presumed dead.

It's mostly car accidents and stuff like that, driving in unfamiliar territory.

	02-10-2003 02:32									#14
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WTF?!

damn...

	02-10-2003 06:02									#15
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this sort of things always happens
IIRC in Gulf War I there were more non-combat deaths.

	02-10-2003 08:27									#16
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I am an American. Born and raised and still resident. Only left he U.S. three times for a grand total to two and half weeks total over the course of my 36.5 years. As scared as we are of crime because of our media, I think most of the world would be scared to live here. When Israelis complain about the deaths from the al-Aqsa intifiada over the past few years, I'm like, "what, more people were murder in Chicago in the same three years, and thre's less people in Chicago." Israelis are whimps, I tell yeah.

chegitz guevara i know that you live in the US, i was just saying Europe has a lower crime rate.

	02-10-2003 22:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I am an American. Born and raised and still resident. Only left he U.S. three times for a grand total to two and half weeks total over the course of my 36.5 years. As scared as we are of crime because of our media, I think most of the world would be scared to live here. When Israelis complain about the deaths from the al-Aqsa intifiada over the past few years, I'm like, "what, more people were murder in Chicago in the same three years, and thre's less people in Chicago." Israelis are whimps, I tell yeah.

I bet most of those murders in Chicago were not "stranger on stranger" murders. Most murders in the US (again, contrary to crime hysteria) are domestic affairs. and alot of the rest in Chicago are probably drug related, taking place in the "usual neighborhoods" So if you dont want to be murdered in chicago, stay out of certain neighborhoods, and keep your domestic affairs in order, and stay out of bar fights. In israel - or Kashmir - or lower Manhattan - its rather something different.

	02-10-2003 22:45									#18
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Sounds like having a gun at home really encourages people to use it

	02-10-2003 22:54									#19
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quote: Sounds like having a gun at home really encourages people to use it

Well, if you don't the thing could jam up when you want to... Got oil 'em and get some use out of them every once and a while