05-10-2003 11:47									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

who cares what they think.

What is more important is how the muslim world image is with the U.S.

that determines if they will be attacked or not by superior american forces.

	05-10-2003 12:33									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

There was no question that an American invasion of Iraq would hurt America's image amongst Muslims in the short term. The real question is whether America can build a stable, democratic and prosperous Iraq that will improve the image of America amongst Muslims over the long term.

	05-10-2003 21:54									#33
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin . Even if an evil dictator needed over throwing the Arabs don't like it shown that they were to weak & incompetent to do it and they sure don't like a foreigner showing how easy it is to do.

Man, I'd love to diagram that sentance.




I personally follow the "Scott Adams theory of American-Muslim relations".

The theory basically "We could fly over and drop money from the sky and they would still hate us."

	05-10-2003 22:08									#34
	Increase the size of your Attachments

US image among muslims won't ever improve as long as countries such as North Korea, Iran and Saudi Arabia exist

	05-10-2003 22:13									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It won't improve as long as the US exists.

	05-10-2003 23:32									#36
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We could improve our relations with the Arab world by breaking diplomatic relations with Israel and offering an alliance with Palestine. We could also improve our relations with North Korea by renouncing our alliance with the South and turning the DMZ over to the North, and we could improve our relations with China by renouncing our recognition of the Republic of China government and dissolving our alliance with them. We could improve our relations with Germany and Japan by offering our apologies for WW2. You know, there are just so many things that we could do if we really wanted to get along with the other nations with whom we share this world.

	06-10-2003 01:10									#37
	Support Apolyton

quote: I personally follow the "Scott Adams theory of American-Muslim relations". The theory basically "We could fly over and drop money from the sky and they would still hate us."

In the past (pre-Israel days), America was loved among Muslims. and for the most part of post-WW2 days, it remained fairly ok. Only recently we start seeing the image drop in countries such as Indonesia. They don't hate you because you're you. They hate you for what you do.

	06-10-2003 02:08									#38
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus In the past (pre-Israel days), America was loved among Muslims. and for the most part of post-WW2 days, it remained fairly ok. Only recently we start seeing the image drop in countries such as Indonesia. They don't hate you because you're you. They hate you for what you do.

What the US has done in the ME has been a part of who they are, for the most part.

The UN created Israel, not the US. The US is the only major power to stand by the Israelis though. Their standing by Israel is because it is the right thing to do, as far as most Americans are concerned.

They supported Muslims in putting the boots to the Red Army in Afghanistan. Again, they did this because to many Americans, winning the Cold War was the right thing to do. Man, that's an understatement. It was the vital thing to do.

GW1 was an international reaction to a war of aggression by a tyrant. Once again, Americans supported expelling the dictator because of how they view their place in the world.

I think DanS nailed it:

quote: Originally posted by DanS This was preceded by "Muslim image drops among Americans."

That explains more than anything else why GW2 happened. For whatever reason, the American administration decided it was time to deal with Saddam, and the American people allowed it because the image of the Muslim ME to Americans has deteriorated. That deterioration is the relavent bit. The Yanks had not yet invaded Iraq when the fundamentalists declared Jihad against them (and the rest of the West).

So now Muslims really don't like the consequences of launching aircraft as bombs into Western nations? My reaction is a huge so what!

	06-10-2003 02:23									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Of course, most of the terrorists who attacked the US were from SA. Was there any iraqi at all among them?

The US failed to give a good reason for this war so far. Saddam clearly wasn't a military threat anymore, no WOMD were found, no links with Al Qaeda were found.
So, why Iraq?

If someone is blinded by hate against the muslims, I can understand that he supports this war. But otherwise?

	06-10-2003 02:38									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My hunch from the beginning was that it gives the US land bases next to Iran and Syria, as well as allowing them to withdraw from SA.

I agreed with the war because Saddam did not live up to the cease fire terms, the possibility that he had or could get immensely destructive weapons, and the viciousness which he used in ruling Iraq. I believe the war killed far fewer than would have died in the near term if he had been left alone, and I am not crying that the US and UK removed him by force of arms.

	06-10-2003 02:45									#42
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think it's obvious that the drop is due largely to US actions regarding Iraq. I think, with time, assuming that things continue to go well there, you'll see a rebound. Of course, when the US stops buying Saudi oil, they'll be pissed again.

	06-10-2003 02:45									#43
	Increase Your PM Length

oh, and the struggle against Islamism is far from over. The value of bases in Iraq may be incalculable over the long term.

btw, a group of Muslims were recently busted in Canada. They had been scoping out a nuclear reactor on the shores of Lake Ontario. They were stupid enough to have been doing the flight school routine, and flying over and around the reactor complex, as well as having been observed on the ground near the fences.

Canada did not participate in the war in Iraq, but that did not seem to be part of the equation. The fundies seemed to be quite happy to irradiate a large part of the most densely populated part of Canada if their plan worked. Islamists do not just hate the US. They hate the West. More people will come to see that before this is over as the point is driven home violently.

	06-10-2003 03:46									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither oh, and the struggle against Islamism is far from over. The value of bases in Iraq may be incalculable over the long term. btw, a group of Muslims were recently busted in Canada. They had been scoping out a nuclear reactor on the shores of Lake Ontario. They were stupid enough to have been doing the flight school routine, and flying over and around the reactor complex, as well as having been observed on the ground near the fences. Canada did not participate in the war in Iraq, but that did not seem to be part of the equation. The fundies seemed to be quite happy to irradiate a large part of the most densely populated part of Canada if their plan worked. Islamists do not just hate the US. They hate the West. More people will come to see that before this is over as the point is driven home violently.

Have they talked about what they planned to do? Were they going to try to blow up the plant or to steal some radioactive material to use in the making of a "dirty" bomb?

	06-10-2003 04:22									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Have they talked about what they planned to do? Were they going to try to blow up the plant or to steal some radioactive material to use in the making of a "dirty" bomb?

The implication has been that they planned to crash a large aircraft into it. The student pilot was in a program for multi engine jets.

The reactor they were focused on is very close to Toronto. A lot of jets take off from Toronto loaded to the gills with fuel to get to the West coast, or to cross the Atlantic.