02-10-2003 14:01									#1
	US image drops among Muslims Increase Your PM Length

quote: US image drops among Muslims Many Muslims resent the US military presence in Iraq Hostility towards the US has reached "shocking" levels in the Muslim world, according to a report released in Washington. A panel of experts chosen by the Bush administration found that good will towards America had plummeted in the past year, from Jordan to Indonesia. It called for more money to be spent on promoting US policies, and made specific recommendations such as recruiting more Arabic-speaking diplomats. The BBC's state department correspondent, Jon Leyne, says the findings only confirm earlier reports but are significant in that they were commissioned this time by the US administration. One member of the panel, John Zogby, said America's standing in the Muslim and Arab world could not get any worse than it was today. The report's authors stressed that they were not addressing US policies per se but their presentation, arguing that the US was often "not even present for the debate" with the Muslim world. At the same time, the report, which was compiled by 13 experts including several Arabs and Muslims, warned against adopting propaganda devices. Action plan Entitled "Changing Minds, Winning Peace", the report finds that 15% of Indonesians now view the US favourably - down from 61% in 2002. In the spring of 2003, only 1% of Jordanians took a favourable view of the US compared with 25% in the summer of 2002. The report calls for more investment in "public diplomacy" and it urges the state department to recruit 300 fluent Arabic speakers within two years, and another 300 by 2008. Scholarships for Muslims should also be boosted, it adds, and more money put into US radio broadcasts to the Arabic world as well as the translation of educational texts into local languages. The report acknowledges that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians and the situation in Iraq are impeding good relations. "Surveys indicate that much of the resentment toward America stems from real conflicts and displeasure with policies, including those involving the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and Iraq," the US report says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3156836.stm

Hmm, the war in Iraq doesn't seem to help too much the "War against terror", does it?

	02-10-2003 14:04									#2
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Of course not, the idea that war in Iraq wouldn't encourage more muslim extremists to turn to terrorism was either naive or deliberate spin.

	02-10-2003 14:06									#3
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Hasn't the US image among muslims been dropping ever since the 70s?

	02-10-2003 14:09									#4
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Another question is, if the drop of the US image is limited to the muslim world.

	02-10-2003 14:12									#5
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This isn't really a question, SR. The answer is pretty obvious.

	02-10-2003 15:48									#7
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i don't think "oops" will cut it.

	02-10-2003 16:37									#8
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The more Muslims we piss off, the more terrorists we create...
The more terrorists we create, the easier it is to find terrorists.

It's all part of a well-thought-out master plan...

	02-10-2003 16:39									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Hasn't the US image among muslims been dropping ever since the 70s?

It's been so low for so long that no one in the US really cares what the Arabs/muslims think. That's the truth. We expect them to hate us no matter what we do so we might as well do what's in the best interests of the US and it's allies because we will be no worse off because of it.

Us policy pissed lots of them off but then again there is also the dictators who try to fixate the people on foreigners so that the people won't look at the great failures the dictator has brought at home. Our policy shifts won't have much effect until the dictators stop trying to externalize domestic problems.

	02-10-2003 16:46									#10
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quote: Us policy pissed lots of them off but then again there is also the dictators who try to fixate the people on foreigners so that the people won't look at the great failures the dictator has brought at home.

So true. Even Hitler did this.

Oops, I just realized, that Däubler-Gmelin said this and some yanks were really pissed at this sentence.

	02-10-2003 16:48									#11
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Well, the article says that "the report finds that 15% of Indonesians now view the US favourably - down from 61% in 2002."

Now, 61% wasn't that bad. 61-25=36% of the Indonesians started to hate the americans in the last year; that's quite a number of people who didn't have problems with America until now.

1% of the jordanians took a favourable view of the US ?! Extrapolating, the whole middle east basically hates you now.

	02-10-2003 16:55									#12
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I wonder if the folks in the anti-immigration movement in Europe are feeling a little jealous now?

	02-10-2003 17:00									#13
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They might feel. However, a high standard of living is much more important in the eyes of an emmigrant than world politics.

	02-10-2003 17:02									#14
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Also you have to remember that a large part of this has to do with Iraq. Even if an evil dictator needed over throwing the Arabs don't like it shown that they were to weak & incompetent to do it and they sure don't like a foreigner showing how easy it is to do.

	02-10-2003 18:10									#15
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I think the reason of the dramatic image loss in the arab world (and nearly everywhere else too) during and after the Iraq war is not the ease of the victory, but the lack of a casus belli. To oust a dictator is definitely not one, neither is it the suspection of WoMD presence (which is most likely a false claim) without a UNSC mandate. And the claim, that it's just a continuation of GW I is just ridiculous.

	02-10-2003 18:18									#16
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I think we passed the point of no return a while ago. Fook it, let's break sh!t.

Sorry, I'm on 4hrs sleep and I just don't care right now.

-Arrian

	02-10-2003 18:54									#17
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This was preceded by "Muslim image drops among Americans."

	02-10-2003 19:12									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I think the reason of the dramatic image loss in the arab world (and nearly everywhere else too) during and after the Iraq war is not the ease of the victory, but the lack of a casus belli. To oust a dictator is definitely not one, neither is it the suspection of WoMD presence (which is most likely a false claim) without a UNSC mandate. And the claim, that it's just a continuation of GW I is just ridiculous.

Maybe to oust a dictator should be a casus belli, but then you apply it under a UN mandate, whenever and wherever is necessary.

	02-10-2003 20:33									#19
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Wither you like it or not the action was authorized by the same UNSC resolutions which authorized GW1. The cease fire was never an equal treaty; Saddam agreed to prove to the US's satifaction he had disarmed. If the US is not satisfied with his disarmerment then we can undeclare a cease fire just as easily as we can declare one.

	02-10-2003 20:48									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I think the reason of the dramatic image loss in the arab world (and nearly everywhere else too) during and after the Iraq war is not the ease of the victory, but the lack of a casus belli. To oust a dictator is definitely not one, neither is it the suspection of WoMD presence (which is most likely a false claim) without a UNSC mandate. And the claim, that it's just a continuation of GW I is just ridiculous.

YES, a UNSC by 4 western powers, and China would REALLY change a lot to the average muslim.

	02-10-2003 21:31									#21
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US image has always been rock bottom. So what, I say.

Muslim image drops among Americans. Even this is a, so what.

It all comes down to one thing. Who has the biggest stick and who can swings it the best. I think we all know who that is.

	02-10-2003 21:50									#22
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Whether you like it or not, but just like everyone else in this world I am entitled to have my own opinion about this case and the United States as a whole. I don't give a flying **** about the official excuse of the Bush regime for this war, and I can clearly see the reason of the image loss during the last years. My own attitude has changed from fairly pro-american in 2000 to rather anti-american now. Seing the dramatical raise of anti-americanism throughout the world (perhaps except Israel, for obvoius reasons), there must be a majority looking at this mess with the same disgust as I do. And before you blame the actions of my government for this, I don't give a damn about this bunch of morons either.

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Wither you like it or not the action was authorized by the same UNSC resolutions which authorized GW1. The cease fire was never an equal treaty; Saddam agreed to prove to the US's satifaction he had disarmed. If the US is not satisfied with his disarmerment then we can undeclare a cease fire just as easily as we can declare one.

	03-10-2003 02:41									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin dictators who try to fixate the people on foreigners so that the people won't look at the great failures the dictator has brought at home.

You mean like Bush losing 3 million jobs, and increasing the defocit further by cutting taxes to the rich, and giving billions to Hallibuton for reconstruction? (The Marshall Plan only cost $100billion in inflation corrected dollars.)

	03-10-2003 02:58									#24
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic You mean like Bush losing 3 million jobs, and increasing the defocit further by cutting taxes to the rich, and giving billions to Hallibuton for reconstruction? (The Marshall Plan only cost $100billion in inflation corrected dollars.)

Bush lost 3 million jobs? Curious. I didn't realize we had ditched the free market for a governmentally-controlled economy.

And how DARE he cut taxes to the rich, instead of simply giving tax cuts to the untaxed.




I won't lose much sleep over this.

	03-10-2003 03:35									#25
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meh, it depends on why they hate us.

	03-10-2003 04:05									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin but then again there is also the dictators who try to fixate the people on foreigners so that the people won't look at the great failures the dictator has brought at home.

Excellent analysis.

	03-10-2003 04:10									#28
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Tas, does this really surprise you?

	03-10-2003 04:19									#29
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Why would it?

	03-10-2003 04:24									#30
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quote: "Many Muslims resent the US military presence in Iraq "

no ****?