02-10-2003 23:10									#31
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider This is yet another example of how Bush's war-mongering threatens to spiral the entire world into madness. It's time the people of this nation take the hint, and throw him out.

Go take your sedatives.
In all probability, China and/or Japan and/or South Korea will get fed up with these antics.

Blame Bush for your ice cream melting while you're at it.

	02-10-2003 23:19									#32
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* Eli points at Iran.

Let's deal with them first...

	02-10-2003 23:26									#33
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How will you deal with Iran if you send your army in N. Korea?

On a serious note, as much as I loathe N.K. (not the people, but the stalinist gov. over there), I sure hope that the US won't attack a country who has nukes. They might become desperate enough to use them

	02-10-2003 23:26									#34
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I'd rather kick Iran's and Somalia's asses, and leave these idiots for someone else.

	02-10-2003 23:59									#35
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its bush's fault for not attacking n.k and going for iraq.

	03-10-2003 00:09									#36
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**shrug** In a year or so, I bet Iran declares itself a nuclear power as well. We can blame that on Bush, too, I imagine. Lord knows, he's the bane of the world.

Gatekeeper

	03-10-2003 00:54									#37
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quote: No. They have demanded more than that.

yes, oil and food. but they were already getting that before the boycot. so they just want what they had, plus a non-aggression treaty. Now stop being so petty, and just promise not to attack them, and we can all get on with rebuilding Iraq and such. case closed.

	03-10-2003 00:59									#38
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*Paging a Mr. China. We've found your lost child. Please come to the security desk and deal with him*

	03-10-2003 01:21									#39
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That's how I feel about it, gunk.
It the USA MADE Hussein, China MADE NK.

	03-10-2003 04:33									#40
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NK is threathening China.

	03-10-2003 13:30									#41
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Yeah, threatening China...totally bonkers...

I believe the real concern should be the NKs missile programme, not the bomb program.

I imagine young kim is whipping and driving his scientists as fast as possible to make a Tae Po Dong III that can hit most West Coast cities. THAT would give them a deterrant.

Put it before the UN and say 'any NK icbm test will be met with immediate air strikes' in a resolution.

	03-10-2003 13:35									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper **shrug** In a year or so, I bet Iran declares itself a nuclear power as well. We can blame that on Bush, too, I imagine. Lord knows, he's the bane of the world. Gatekeeper

Nah, that's ok. Iran wants to nuke Israel, and nobody likes us.

	03-10-2003 14:36									#43
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We can't negotiate with them, it will only encourage them.

We can't attack them, the cost would be too great.

We can do nothing.

...and so far, that's driving them nuts.

	03-10-2003 14:51									#44
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider This is yet another example of how Bush's war-mongering threatens to spiral the entire world into madness. It's time the people of this nation take the hint, and throw him out.

Gude vun, comerad.

	04-10-2003 06:03									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus it is Bush's fault for antagonising North Korea.

.

"National Objective

The national objective, as clearly stated in both the North Korean Constitution and the Workers' Party Convention, is to bring about the communization of South Korea in order to establish a communist society on the Korean peninsula.

To further underscore the national objective, in April 1965, the North Korean Central Committee announced its proposal for a three-tiered revolution. Revolution 1 called for the revolutionizing of North Korea's military might. Revolution 2 called for the erosion of South Korea's foreign military alliances, particularly targeting the removal of US Forces and nuclear weapons from South Korea.4 Revolution 3, the diplomacy turning strategy, was intended to align North Korea with various foreign countries while internationally isolating South Korea. In 1961, North Korea, China, and USSR signed a friendship and reciprocity assistance treaty, a big step in isolating South Korea with in the region."



Why is it that some people just don't get it? They are way to busy trying to find fault with Bush to go look for the truth in matters.

http://call.army.mil/products/spc_p...ea/contents.htm

	04-10-2003 06:07									#46
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If America cared at all about WMD and terrorist support, Pakistan would be toast. It isn't.

	04-10-2003 06:12									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie If America cared at all about WMD and terrorist support, Pakistan would be toast. It isn't.

Perhaps we are only concerned with those who have expressed destroying us as a goal and are trying to acquire WMD.

	04-10-2003 06:15									#48
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quote: and how exactely would you solve this mess ?

Ignore them. End all subsidies. I can't understand why the Dems and Repubs think propping up brutal regimes is in our interest, much less moral.

	04-10-2003 06:54									#49
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Perhaps we are only concerned with those who have expressed destroying us as a goal and are trying to acquire WMD.

I fail to remember any quote by Saddam where he verbally threatened the mainland of USA. As far as I can recall, he just said that if you invade, you would be swimming in your own blood. If bullshit was a cause for death penalty, G. W. Bush would be a smoking skeleton by now.

	04-10-2003 08:51									#50
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Bush invades a country that kept claiming (it seems now accurately) that it had no WMD's. Becuase of that we can;t invade a country specifically stating they will make WMD's....

There is little the US can do. A war is out of the question, and the NOrth will have nukes long before any economic sanctions made a significant effect, and once they have nukes, well.....what's the point of sanctions?

The nuclear balance created in 1969 is unraveling: it began in 1998, nothing really has been done by anyone to stop it's slide, and now NK, and Iran at some point will join th other 3 non-NPT approved nuclear states. How long the overall structure could last after that..who knows.

	04-10-2003 08:58									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus you know as well as I that things escalated because of America's current "no deal" policies. Jesus people, all NK wants is a non-aggression treaty. Give it to them, and they'll give up their WoMDs. Problem solved, everyone happy. Why is Bush&Co being so stubborn about it? The sollution is right there in front of us.

You got it in one. Except for the part about them giving up their WMD's.

	04-10-2003 09:00									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus if they break the terms of the non-aggression treaty they asked for, then they pretty much declare war against the US. they aren't that stupid

They won't *break* it... they'll just ignore it, and demand something else in return for not developing nukes. They've done it before, they'll do it again.

	04-10-2003 09:01									#53
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider This is yet another example of how Bush's war-mongering threatens to spiral the entire world into madness. It's time the people of this nation take the hint, and throw him out.

You're trolls keep getting worse and worse. Sadly, this is actually an improvement on previous ones *shudder*

	04-10-2003 09:18									#54
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on the whole "don;t trust them cause they don;t keep their deals": i am sorry, but to a point, peoiple's honesty matters less to me than their capabilities. Lets say the N Koreans ahd kept working only on their hidden uranium program..then in several years maybe they have scorunged enough enrich uranium for a couple more bombs, or their first two bombs...instead we let the framework fall apart, which meant NK brought out of storage enough nuclear material so they could in just months have half a dozen new bombs if not more, and reactivate facilities that give them the capacity to make two or more new ones a year.

So how did this work out better? BY deciding that the uranium breach was enough to let the whole thing laspe, we only hastened the day the N koreans get more than 1 or 2 bombs, asusming that is that the uranium deal tiself could have been frozen in some new agreement.

So again, how is this better? Fine, it's nice and "honest", but didn;t make the US one iota safer..if anything it did the opposite.

	04-10-2003 09:20									#55
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quote: Originally posted by GePap on the whole "don;t trust them cause they don;t keep their deals": i am sorry, but to a point, peoiple's honesty matters less to me than their capabilities. Lets say the N Koreans ahd kept working only on their hidden uranium program..then in several years maybe they have scorunged enough enrich uranium for a couple more bombs, or their first two bombs...instead we let the framework fall apart, which meant NK brought out of storage enough nuclear material so they could in just months have half a dozen new bombs if not more, and reactivate facilities that give them the capacity to make two or more new ones a year. So how did this work out better? BY deciding that the uranium breach was enough to let the whole thing laspe, we only hastened the day the N koreans get more than 1 or 2 bombs, asusming that is that the uranium deal tiself could have been frozen in some new agreement. So again, how is this better? Fine, it's nice and "honest", but didn;t make the US one iota safer..if anything it did the opposite.

GePap, This is appeasement and you know it.

	04-10-2003 09:34									#56
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you say like that I should care?

Appeasement is a verb: it is meaningless. It is amoral. It is a strategy. same as war. Anyone who attached a moral meaning to what is a completely amoraL thing, a procedure, a way of, is asking for trouble. There are times when appeasement is what is called for.

I believe that policy should be based on goals: identify your goal, identify the strategies that would best serve your goal, use them. Will mistakles be made? Yes, becuase information is not infinate.

Becuase we did not "appease" as you say, we are less safe and further from a acceptable resolution to the problem. War is not an option. It never was. Fine, you denounce "appeasement": so what strategy should be used? rain dancing?

	04-10-2003 10:57									#57
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Ignoooooore them! They are mere warts on China's behind...

	04-10-2003 11:11									#58
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History has shown us that when you appease aggressors that they will continually demand more. Eventually a line must be drawn. Appeasement is trading today's peace for tommorow's war. Invariably tommorow's war is much worse. Am I advocating war with North Korea? No, but not because the cost is to high. I am not advocating it because the world has yet to stand together to take any kind of concrete action. When confronting this problem the world should speak as one. It is imperitive that DPRK not get the mixed world signals that are becoming more prevalent. Did you read the quote I posted above? Reunification with the South under a communist form of government is in their constitution. Do we just ignore that as they start to acquire nuclear weapons? Do we ignore that as they continue to develop missle technology? Do we simply wait until they are ready to fulfill their national goal? Or do we just sit and watch while a free ROK falls?

You may say that this is not their goal, but when you look at their official line then that argument falls apart. The only reason they haven't struck is because they do not yet feel confident enough in victory.

The statement that we are "less safe" does not stand up to scruitiny eithier. Just because a danger has been exposed does not make it less a danger. So what do you really think DPRK would have done if they had told us they were making uranium bombs (which they did) and we continued to send oil? Think they would have said "Oh that canges everything. Let's stop these operations right away!" BULLCRAP. Don't be naive...we are talking North Korea here and they have a pretty well established history on just this type of situation.

	04-10-2003 11:16									#59
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quote: History has shown us that when you appease aggressors that they will continually demand more. Eventually a line must be drawn.

Would that be the 38 parallel? How is N Korea an aggressor? Ignooooore them! China will stomp there butts if they mess with S Korea. The Chinese PM said N Korea was like their wife and S Korea is like their mistress. And we know the role of the wife in asian culture...That puts it in perspective...

	04-10-2003 11:22									#60
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Bascially what Berzerker is saying is that China would leave the wife so it can slap that ass